The End of the ‘Clusters’ and the Limits of Post-Mosaic Halakhic Authority (Temurah 15b-16a)

What happens when a generation dies out, and takes its knowledge with it?¹ This sugya offers a sobering answer, describing a rupture in the transmission of Torah after the death of Moses and, later, the deaths of two sages known as the final eshkolot (אשכולות - “clusters,” or men in whom “all was contained”). These losses signal the end of a certain ideal: direct, unmediated halakhic knowledge rooted in prophetic authority.

This sugya weaves together multiple traditions that confront the consequences of that transition, describing thousands of forgotten laws, prophetic refusal to intervene, and a shift from revelation to majority rule. Through major early figures and leaders like Joshua (Moses’ successor as the leader of the Israelites), Samuel, and Othniel, the Talmud explores the fragility of halakhic memory and the limits placed on divine authority after the Revelation at Sinai. No longer can heaven dictate law: The Torah is now in human hands; flawed, fragmented, and debated.

See Wikipedia, “Not in Heaven”:

Not in Heaven (לֹ֥א בַשָּׁמַ֖יִם הִ֑וא, lo ba-shamayim hi) is a phrase found in a Biblical verse, Deuteronomy 30:12, which encompasses the passage’s theme, and takes on additional significance in rabbinic Judaism.

The full verse states: “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us, and get it for us so that we may hear it and observe it?’

In general, the verse conforms with how “... the deuteronomic tradition believed its Torah to be an immediately accessible wisdom, neither distant nor wondrous.”

The phrase “not in Heaven” is understood to justify human authority to interpret the Torah.

The Talmud explains “[The Torah] is not in Heaven” to mean that the meaning of the Torah itself is to be uncovered not by prophets, or even God’s miracles or words, but by humankind’s interpretation and decision-making.

In the story of the Oven of Akhnai, “R’ Yehoshua affirmed the independence of human interpretation from divine intervention since this is what God wills. In support he adduces the biblical statement that the Torah is ‘not in heaven’ (Deuteronomy 30:12).”

In the [...] study of Jewish law, the verse “not in Heaven” serves as the Biblical grounding for the jurisprudential structure of halakhah (Jewish law).

The source for Rabbinic authority is really from Deuteronomy 17:11 (According to the law which they shall teach you, and according to the judgment which they shall tell you, you shall do).

As one author explains, thanks to the midrashic reading of the verse, “...God himself acquiesced in His exclusion from the halakhic process. Having revealed His will in Sinai in the grundnorm, He Himself, according to the Rabbinic explanation, entrusted the interpretation of His will to the Sages.”

Outline

Intro

The Passage

1. The Death of the Final “Clusters”: Yosef ben Yo’ezer of Tzereida and Yosef ben Yoḥanan of Jerusalem

2. Rav Yehuda citing Shmuel - Decline from the Mosaic Ideal

3. Rav Yehuda citing Shmuel - 3,000 Forgotten Halakhot After Moses’ Death

4. Baraita - Post-Mosaic Authority and Majority Rule

5. Baraita - Decline of Leadership Integrity

6. Prophetic Revelation Rejected as a Source of Halakha After Sinai (Deuteronomy 30:12; Leviticus 27:34): The Loss of Halakhot After Moses’ Death; Joshua, Samuel, Pinehas, and Elazar All Maintain the Same Principle When Asked

7. Rav Yehuda citing Rav - Joshua Forgets Halakhot After Declining to Ask Moses Before His Death

   1. Part 1: Moses Offers Final Opportunity; Joshua Declines (Exodus 33:11)

   2. Part 2: Catastrophic Forgetting; God’s Refusal and Tactical Diversion (Joshua 1:1–2)

8. Baraita - During the mourning period for Moses, 1,700 rules were forgotten

9. R’ Abbahu - Othniel Restores Forgotten Torah Laws Through His Sharp Mind (Joshua 15:16–17): Loss of Torah Knowledge After Moses’ Death; Othniel’s Intellectual Victory

The Passage

Temurah.15b.11-16a.19

The Death of the Final “Clusters”: Yosef ben Yo’ezer of Tzereida and Yosef ben Yoḥanan of Jerusalem

The Mishnah states that with the deaths of Yosef ben Yo’ezer of Tzereida and Yosef ben Yoḥanan of Jerusalem, the ‘eshkolot’ (“grape clusters”) ceased—men described as “a man who contains all.” These were sages complete in Torah and mitzvot.

תנן התם:

משמת

1. יוסף בן יועזר איש צרידה,

2. ויוסף בן יוחנן איש ירושלים --

בטלו האשכולות --

איש שהכל בו.

Earlier the Talmud mentioned the halakha of a sin offering whose owner died, which was one of the halakhot forgotten during the mourning period for Moses (see 16a). On this topic the Talmud says that we learned in a mishna there (Sota 47a):²

From the time when died (c. 2nd century BCE)

1. Yosef ben Yo’ezer of Tzereida

2. and Yosef ben Yoḥanan of Jerusalem --

the clusters [eshkolot] ceased, i.e., they were the last of the clusters.

The Talmud asks: What is the meaning of eshkolot? It means a man who contains all [ish she-ha-kol bo], i.e., both Torah and mitzvot.

Rav Yehuda citing Shmuel - Decline from the Mosaic Ideal

Rav Yehuda in the name of Shmuel claims that all sages until Yosef ben Yo’ezer learned Torah as Moses did, but from his death onward, that level was no longer attained.

ואמר רב יהודה, אמר שמואל:

• כל אשכולות שעמדו להן לישראל מימות משה עד שמת יוסף בן יועזר —

  • היו למדין תורה כמשה רבינו,

• מכאן ואילך —

  • לא היו למדין תורה כמשה רבינו.

And Rav Yehuda says that Shmuel says:

• All the clusters who stood at the head of the Jewish people from the days of Moses until Yosef ben Yo’ezer died --

  • would study Torah in the manner of Moses, our teacher.

• From that point forward --

  • they would not study Torah in the manner of Moses, our teacher.

Rav Yehuda citing Shmuel - 3,000 Forgotten Halakhot After Moses’ Death

Rav Yehuda says in the name of Shmuel that 3,000 halakhot were forgotten during the mourning period for Moses.

אמר רב יהודה, אמר שמואל:

שלשת אלפים הלכות נשתכחו בימי אבלו של משה

[...]

Rav Yehuda say that Shmuel said:

3,000 halakhot were forgotten during the days of mourning for Moses.

[...]

Baraita - Post-Mosaic Authority and Majority Rule

A baraita teaches that from Moses’ death onward, halakhic questions were resolved by majority rule: what the majority deems pure or impure is binding.

משמת משה,

• אם רבו מטמאין —

  • טמאו,

• אם רבו טהורין —

  • טיהרו

[...]

taught in a baraita with regard to the resolution of questions of halakha:

From the time when Moses died,

• if the majority deem an item impure --

  • they have established it as impure,

• and if the majority deem an item pure --

  • they have established it as pure.

[...]

Baraita - Decline of Leadership Integrity

A baraita notes a moral or spiritual decline in leadership after the death of Yosef ben Yo’ezer:

Until his time, each leadership “cluster” was without flaw (דופי); afterward, flaws became evident in those who led.

במתניתא תנא:

• כל אשכולות שעמדו לישראל מימות משה עד שמת יוסף בן יועזר איש צרידה —

  • לא היה בהם שום דופי,

• מכאן ואילך —

  • היה בהן שום דופי.

[...]

It was taught in a baraita:

• All the clusters who stood at the head of the Jewish people from the days of Moses until Yosef ben Yo’ezer died --

  • had no flaw (דופי) in them.

• From this point forward the clusters, i.e., the leadership of the Jewish people --

  • had flaws in them.

[...]

Prophetic Revelation Rejected as a Source of Halakha After Sinai (Deuteronomy 30:12; Leviticus 27:34): The Loss of Halakhot After Moses’ Death; Joshua, Samuel, Pinehas, and Elazar All Maintain the Same Principle When Asked

According to Shmuel, 3,000 halakhot were forgotten during the mourning for Moses (as mentioned earlier).

The people urged Joshua to restore them via heavenly inquiry, but he refused, citing “It is not in heaven” (Deut. 30:12), emphasizing that halakhic authority now lies with human interpretation.

Years later, the people made the same request of Samuel. He also declined, quoting “These are the commandments…” (Lev. 27:34) to assert that prophecy can no longer establish new Torah laws (as they were sealed at the time of the Revelation at Sinai).

The people asked Pinehas and then Elazar to consult God, but both responded that heavenly instruction was no longer valid for legal decisions, again invoking Deut. 30:12 and Lev. 27:34 (respectively).

גופא,

אמר רב יהודה, אמר שמואל:

שלשת אלפים הלכות נשתכחו בימי אבלו של משה.

1. אמרו לו ליהושע: שאל!

   1. אמר להם: ״לא בשמים היא״.

2. אמרו לו לשמואל: שאל!

   1. אמר להם: ״אלה המצות״ —

   2. שאין הנביא רשאי לחדש דבר מעתה [...]

3. אמרו לפנחס: שאל!

   1. אמר להם: ״לא בשמים היא״.

4. אמרו לו לאלעזר: שאל!

   1. אמר להם: ״אלה המצות״,

   2. שאין נביא רשאי לחדש דבר מעתה.

The Talmud returns to the matter itself.

Rav Yehuda says that Shmuel says:

3,000 halakhot were forgotten during the days of mourning for Moses.

1. The Jewish people said to Joshua: Ask for guidance from Heaven so that you can reacquire the forgotten halakhot.

   1. Joshua said to them: “It is not in heaven” (Deuteronomy 30:12). Once the Torah was given on Sinai, the Sages of each generation must determine the halakha. No new halakhot may be added or subtracted by heavenly instruction or through prophecy.

2. Many years later the Jewish people again said to Samuel: Ask for halakhic guidance from Heaven.

   1. He said to them: This is not possible, as the Torah states: “These are the commandments that the Lord commanded Moses to tell the children of Israel at Mount Sinai” (Leviticus 27:34).

   2. The word “these” indicates that from now on a prophet is not permitted to introduce any new element related to the Torah and its mitzvot through prophecy [...]

3. At the time of Moses’ death, the people said to Pinehas: Ask for halakhic guidance from Heaven so that you can relearn the forgotten halakhot.

   1. Pinehas said to them: “It is not in heaven” (Deuteronomy 30:12).

4. The people said to Elazar: Ask for halakhic guidance from God.

   1. He said to them that the verse states: “These are the commandments,”

   2. to teach that a prophet is not permitted to introduce any new element from now on.

Rav Yehuda citing Rav - Joshua Forgets Halakhot After Declining to Ask Moses Before His Death

Part 1: Moses Offers Final Opportunity; Joshua Declines (Exodus 33:11)

Just before Moses’ death, he tells Joshua to ask any unresolved halakhic questions (ספיקות - so he can clarify them).

Joshua declines, insisting he had never left Moses’ side, citing Exodus 33:11, and claiming he would have already asked had he needed clarification.

אמר רב יהודה, אמר רב:

בשעה שנפטר משה רבינו לגן עדן,

אמר לו ליהושע: שאל ממני כל ספיקות שיש לך.

אמר לו:

רבי!

כלום הנחתיך שעה אחת והלכתי למקום אחר?!

לא כך כתבת בי:

״ומשרתו יהושע בן נון נער

לא ימיש מתוך האהל״?!

Rav Yehuda says that Rav says:

Just before the time when Moses, our teacher, left this world and went to the Garden of Eden,

he said to Joshua: Ask from me all the cases of uncertainty in matters of halakha that you have, so that I can clarify them for you.

Joshua said to him:

My teacher!

did I ever leave you for even one moment and go to another place?!

Didn’t you write this about me in the Torah:

“But his minister, Joshua, son of Nun, a young man,

did not depart out of the tent” (Exodus 33:11)?!

If I would have had any case of uncertainty I would have asked you earlier.

Part 2: Catastrophic Forgetting; God’s Refusal and Tactical Diversion (Joshua 1:1–2)

As a result, Joshua’s strength weakens (תשש). In addition, 300 halakhot are forgotten, 700 doubts (ספיקות) arise, and the people nearly kill him for being unable to teach them.

God refuses to reveal the forgotten laws (presumably due to the principle earlier, that Prophetic Revelation Rejected as a Source of Halakha After Sinai) and instead tells Joshua to distract (טורדן - “keep them busy”) the people by leading them into war (Joshua 1:1–2).

מיד

1. תשש כחו של יהושע,

2. ונשתכחו ממנו שלש מאות הלכות,

3. ונולדו לו שבע מאות ספיקות,

4. ועמדו כל ישראל להרגו.

אמר לו הקדוש ברוך הוא:

לומר לך אי אפשר,

לך וטורדן במלחמה,

שנאמר:

״ויהי אחרי מות משה עבד ה׳

ויאמר ה׳ וגו׳״.

Immediately after he said this,

1. Joshua’s strength weakened,

2. and 3,000 halakhot were forgotten by him,

3. and 700 cases of uncertainty emerged before him,

4. and the entire Jewish people arose to kill him, as he was unable to teach them the forgotten halakhot.

God said to Joshua:

It is impossible to tell you these halakhot, as the Torah is not in Heaven. But to save yourself from the Jewish people who want to kill you,

go and exhaust them in war, so that they will leave you alone.

As it is stated:

“Now it came to pass after the death of Moses, the servant of YHWH,

that YHWH spoke to Joshua, son of Nun, Moses’ minister, saying: Moses My servant is dead, now therefore arise, go over this Jordan” (Joshua 1:1–2).

This shows that immediately after the death of Moses, God commanded Joshua to lead the nation into battle.

Baraita - During the mourning period for Moses, 1,700 rules were forgotten

A baraita states that during the mourning period for Moses, 1,700 rules were forgotten—specifically a fortiori inferences (קלין וחמורין - kal va-chomer), verbal analogies (gezerot shavot), and “scribal minutiae” (דקדוקי סופרים).

R’ Abbahu adds that Othniel ben Kenaz restored these teachings through “pilpul” (פלפולו - dialectical sharpness).

R’ Abbahu reads the verse about “conquering” (ילכדה) as a metaphor (for intellectual retrieval of laws. Kiriath Sefer--the “village of the book”--represents the forgotten laws, and Othniel’s “taking” of it symbolizes his intellectual retrieval of them).

במתניתין תנא:

אלף ושבע מאות

1. קלין וחמורין,

2. וגזירות שוות,

3. ודקדוקי סופרים

נשתכחו בימי אבלו של משה.

It is taught in a baraita:

1,700

1. a fortiori inferences (קלין וחמורין)

2. and verbal analogies (גזירות שוות)

3. and minutiae of the scribes (דקדוקי סופרים)

were forgotten during the days of mourning for Moses.

R’ Abbahu - Othniel Restores Forgotten Torah Laws Through His Sharp Mind (Joshua 15:16–17): Loss of Torah Knowledge After Moses’ Death; Othniel’s Intellectual Victory

אמר רבי אבהו:

אף על פי כן

החזירן עתניאל בן קנז מתוך פלפולו,

שנאמר:

״וילכדה עתניאל בן קנז אחי כלב

ויתן לו את עכסה בתו לאשה״.

R’ Abbahu says:

Even so,

Othniel, son of Kenaz, restored them through his sharp mind [pilpulo],

as it is stated:

“And Caleb said: To he who smites Kiriath Sefer, and takes it, to him will I give Achsah my daughter as a wife.

And Othniel, son of Kenaz, the brother of Caleb, took it;

and he gave him Achsah his daughter as a wife” (Joshua 15:16–17).

The name “Kiriath Sefer,” which literally means the village of the book, is homiletically interpreted as a reference to those parts of the Torah that were forgotten, while the phrase “took it” is referring to Othniel’s acumen and learning.

1. For the sugya after this one, see my “Achsah, Othniel, and Jabez, and Allegories for Torah Study in Joshua 15 and I Chronicles 4 (Temurah 16a)”.

For the story embedded within this sugya (that I elide here), see my appendix elsewhere, “The Story of the Hasid Breastfeeding from the Goat - A Lesson in Piety, Sinning, and Following Communal Norms (Temurah 15b)”.

2. For this Mishnah, see my “Pt1 The End of an Era: The Mishnah on Societal Decline and the Discontinuation of Rituals (Mishnah Sotah 9:9-15)“, section “Nullification of Biblical Rituals: Impact of Widespread Murder and Adultery in Late Second Temple Period“.