Pt1 Debates and Miracles: Logic, Exorcism, and the Repeal of Roman Anti-Jewish Laws (Meilah 17a-b)
This is the first part of a two-part series. The outline follows.
Outline
The 3 Roman anti-Judaism decrees
R' Reuven ben Isterobeli makes logical arguments against each one of the three
R’ Shimon ben Yohai and R’ Shimon bar R’ Yosi
R' Shimon curses R' Elazar with death
R’ Shimon performs exorcism
The emperor granted a reward, leading them to his treasury where they found and destroyed the decree against the Jews
The Passage
The 3 Roman anti-Judaism decrees
The Talmud recounts that R' Matya ben Ḥarash asked R' Shimon ben Yoḥai in Rome about the impurity of the blood of creeping animals.1 R' Shimon ben Yoḥai cited Leviticus 11:29, noting the repetition of similar phrases in Leviticus 11:31, to demonstrate that the blood of creeping animals is impure.
R' Matya ben Ḥarash’s students were impressed by R' Shimon ben Yoḥai’s wisdom. However, R' Matya clarified that this teaching originated from R' Elazar bar R' Yosei, and R' Shimon ben Yoḥai had learned it from him.
He further explained that the Roman government (המלכות) had once decreed prohibitions against Jewish practices, prohibiting Shabbat observance and circumcision, and (somehow) compelling sex during menstruation (=niddah).2
שאל רבי מתיא בן חרש את רבי שמעון בן יוחאי בעיר רומי: מנין לדם שרצים שהוא טמא?
אמר ליה: דאמר קרא: ״וזה לכם הטמא״.
אמרו לו תלמידיו: חכים ליה בן יוחאי.
אמר להם: תלמוד ערוך בפיו של רבי אלעזר בר רבי יוסי,
שפעם אחת גזרה המלכות גזרה
שלא ישמרו את השבת,
ושלא ימולו את בניהם,
ושיבעלו את נדות.
The Gemara relates that R' Matya ben Ḥarash asked R' Shimon ben Yoḥai in the city of Rome: From where is it derived with regard to the blood of creeping animals that it is impure?
R' Shimon ben Yoḥai said to him: It is derived from the fact that the verse states: “And these are they that are impure for you among the creeping animals” (Leviticus 11:29). Since a similar phrase already appears in Leviticus 11:31, it is derived from here that the blood of creeping animals is impure.
R' Matya ben Ḥarash’s students said to him in amazement: How wise is R' Shimon ben Yoḥai!
R' Matya ben Ḥarash said to them: This source is not his own, as it is a set tradition in the mouth of R' Elazar bar R' Yosei, and R' Shimon ben Yoḥai learned it from him.
R' Matya ben Ḥarash provided the background for this claim. As, on one occasion the gentile monarchy issued a decree that the Jewish people
may not observe Shabbat,
and that they may not circumcise their sons,
and that they must engage in intercourse with their wives when they are menstruating.
R' Reuven ben Isterobeli makes logical arguments against each one of the three
R' Reuven ben Isterobeli3 disguised himself by adopting a Roman hairstyle (קומי) and sat with Romans as they discussed the three decrees against the Jews. He cleverly argued against these decrees by framing his points in terms of an enemy's preferences (using rhetorical questions; on the usage of rhetorical questions in the Talmud, see my previous piece). Through these arguments, R' Reuven ben Isterobeli successfully convinced the Romans to nullify all three decrees.
1. Work on Shabbat: He asked if one would prefer their enemy to become poor or rich. When they said poor, he argued that prohibiting Jews from working on Shabbat would make them poorer.
2. Circumcision: He asked if one would prefer their enemy to be weak or healthy. When they said weak, he argued that circumcising their sons after eight days would weaken the Jews.
3. Sex during menstruation: He asked if one would prefer their enemy to multiply or decrease. When they said decrease, he argued that allowing Jews to avoid sex during menstruation would reduce their numbers.4
הלך רבי ראובן בן איסטרובלי, וסיפר קומי, והלך וישב עמהם.
אמר להם: מי שיש לו אויב, יעני או יעשיר?
אמרו לו: יעני.
אמר להם: אם כן, לא יעשו מלאכה בשבת, כדי שיענו!
אמרו: טבית אמר, ליבטל, ובטלוה.
חזר ואמר להם: מי שיש לו אויב, יכחיש או יבריא?
אמרו לו: יכחיש.
אמר להם: אם כן, ימולו בניהם לשמונה ימים ויכחישו.
אמרו: טבית אמר, ובטלוה.
חזר ואמר להם: מי שיש לו אויב, ירבה או יתמעט?
אמרו לו: יתמעט.
אם כן, לא יבעלו נדות.
אמרו: טבית אמר, ובטלוה.
R' Reuven ben Isterobeli went and cut his hair in a komei hairstyle,which was common only among the gentiles, and he went and sat with the gentiles when they were discussing these three decrees.
He said to them: One who has an enemy, does he want his enemy to become poor or to become rich?
They said to him: He wants his enemy to become poor.
R' Reuven ben Isterobeli said to them: If so, with regard to the Jewish people as well, isn’t it better that they will not perform labor on Shabbat in order that they will become poor?
The gentiles said: That is a good claim that he said; let us nullify our decree. And they indeed nullified it.
Again R' Reuven ben Isterobeli spoke to them and said: One who has an enemy, does he want his enemy to become weak or to become healthy?
They said to him: He wants his enemy to become weak.
R' Reuven ben Isterobeli said to them: If so, with regard to the Jewish people as well, isn’t it better that they circumcise their sons after eight days and thereby cause them to become weak?
The gentiles said: That is a good claim that he said, and they nullified their decree.
Once again R' Reuven ben Isterobeli spoke to them and said: One who has an enemy, does he want his enemy to multiply or to decrease?
They said to him: He wants his enemy to decrease.
R' Reuven ben Isterobeli said to them: If so, with regard to the Jewish people as well, isn’t it better that they do not engage in intercourse with their wives when they are menstruating?
The gentiles said: That is a good claim that he said, and they nullified their decree.
Original: שרצים - on this term, see my previous piece, at length.
Based on the personalities mentioned, the period this happened is around the time of the Bar Kochba rebellion, around 132 CE..
רבי ראובן בן איסטרובלי, his name is spelled elsewhere as רבי ראובן בן אצטרובילי. His Greek name (איסטרוביל) means “pinecone”, from Greek stróbīlos, with prosthetic aleph. See Hebrew Wiktionary, “אצטרבל“.
On the purported desire of the Romans to decrease the number of Jews, ideally through genocide, see my previous piece, on the sugya in Pesachim.