Pt1 The Messianic Era in the Talmud: The Character of the Messianic Generation and Moral and Social Collapse in the Leadup to the Messianic Era (Sanhedrin 96b-99a)
This is the first part of a seven-part series. The outline of the series is below.1
Intro
Introduction to the sugya: The Messianic Discourse
This sugya presents an extensive rabbinic treatment of messianic expectations, spanning questions of timing, conditions, and characteristics of the Messiah’s arrival.
The discussion opens with Rav Naḥman identifying the Messiah as ‘bar-niflei’ (“son of the fallen”), derived from Amos 9:11’s reference to raising up David’s fallen sukkah, establishing the passage’s concern with scriptural interpretation as the foundation for messianic understanding.2
The sugya describes the messianic generation through two primary lenses: moral-social conditions and material signs. The moral picture is bleak—Torah scholars decrease, truth becomes scattered, youth disrespect elders, families rebel against one another, arrogance proliferates, and the generation’s “face is like a dog.” A detailed seven-year cycle predicts selective famine, great famine with Torah forgotten, gradual plenty with Torah’s return, heavenly voices, wars, and finally the Messiah’s arrival. These descriptions draw heavily on prophetic literature, particularly Isaiah, Amos, and Zechariah.
Multiple rabbis offer calculations for the Messiah’s arrival based on biblical verses, jubilee cycles, and cosmological frameworks.3 Some propose the world lasts 6,000 years with 1,000 years of desolation; others divide history into 2,000 years of chaos, 2,000 of Torah, and 2,000 of messianic days. R. Zeira and others condemn such calculations, warning they may delay redemption. A baraita states three things come only through diversion of attention: the Messiah, a lost object, and a scorpion.
A central debate emerges between R. Eliezer and R. Yehoshua regarding whether redemption requires Jewish repentance or will occur unconditionally through divine decree. This dispute reflects tension between conditional and unconditional models of redemption. Rav and Shmuel disagree similarly—Rav maintains redemption depends on repentance and good deeds, while Shmuel suggests suffering alone suffices.
Material signs of the Messiah’s arrival include Eretz Yisrael yielding abundant fruit,4 economic collapse where no wages exist, fish becoming unavailable, and the end of Roman rule. The cessation of arrogant people and corrupt judges from Israel also serves as a precondition.
The passage addresses the Messiah’s identity with various proposals: he may be named Shiloh, Yinnon, Ḥanina, Menaḥem ben Ḥizkiyya, or identified as the “leper scholar” of R. Yehuda HaNasi’s house. Rav Naḥman suggests if the Messiah lives in this generation, he resembles himself; Rav proposes R. Yehuda HaNasi among the living or Daniel among the dead. The resolution of Daniel 7:13 (coming with clouds) and Zechariah 9:9 (riding a donkey) depends on Israel’s merit.
Several rabbis express ambivalence about witnessing the Messiah’s arrival due to fear of pre-messianic suffering, the “birthpangs of Messiah.” R. Yoḥanan and others say “Let him come, but may I not see him,” while Rav Yosef accepts potential suffering. This anxiety stems from Jeremiah 30:6’s depiction of intense travail affecting both heavenly and earthly realms.
Regarding duration, opinions range from 40 years (R. Eliezer) to 70 years (R. Elazar ben Azarya) to three generations (R. Yehuda HaNasi) to 365 years to 7,000 years, with some proposing it will last from Creation until the Messiah’s arrival. R. Hillel controversially claims there is no future Messiah, as prophecies were fulfilled during Hezekiah’s reign—a position Rav Yosef rejects by citing post-Hezekiah prophecies.
The sugya distinguishes between the messianic era and the World-to-Come. R. Ḥiyya bar Abba citing R. Yoḥanan states prophets only described the messianic era, while the World-to-Come remains beyond description—”no eye has seen it.” This phrase receives various interpretations: wine preserved since Creation or Eden itself.
Major Themes in the sugya
Calculations and Anti-Calculation Tensions - Multiple attempts to calculate the end of days through biblical interpretation, jubilee cycles, and cosmological frameworks, contrasted with condemnation of such calculations as potentially delaying redemption
Conditional vs. Unconditional Redemption - Central debate between R. Eliezer (redemption requires repentance) and R. Yehoshua (redemption will occur regardless, through divine decree or imposed suffering)
Pre-Messianic Moral Deterioration - Systematic description of social breakdown: disrespect for elders and scholars, family rebellion, proliferating arrogance and heresy, truth becoming scattered, corrupt leadership
Material and Political Signs - Agricultural abundance in Eretz Yisrael, economic collapse, scarcity of fish, end of Roman rule, cessation of arrogant people and corrupt judges
The Seven-Year Cycle - Detailed year-by-year progression from selective famine through plenty, heavenly voices, wars, to the Messiah’s arrival
Identity of the Messiah - Various names proposed (Shiloh, Yinnon, Ḥanina, Menaḥem ben Ḥizkiyya, the “leper scholar”), speculation about contemporary figures, question of whether he is from the living or the dead
Merit-Dependent Modalities - Resolution of contradictory verses: coming with clouds of heaven if Israel merits, riding a donkey if not; hastened if they merit, in its appointed time if not
Pre-Messianic Suffering (“Birthpangs”) - Rabbinic anxiety about witnessing the Messiah’s arrival due to intense travail described in Jeremiah 30:6, affecting both heavenly and earthly realms
Duration of the Messianic Era - Widely divergent opinions ranging from 40 years to 7,000 years, with various scriptural proofs
Messianic Era vs. World-to-Come - Distinction between the prophetically described messianic period and the indescribable World-to-Come (”no eye has seen”)
Scriptural Hermeneutics - Consistent methodology of deriving messianic knowledge through close reading, comparison, and interpretation of biblical texts
Imminence and Perpetual Deferral - Tension between expectations of imminent redemption and acknowledgment that all calculated deadlines have passed; the Messiah’s “today, if you heed His voice”
Outline
Intro
Introduction to the sugya: The Messianic Discourse
Major Themes in the sugya
The Passage - The Messianic Era in the Talmud
The Character of the Messianic Generation; Moral and Social Collapse in the Messianic Era
[Pt2] Calculations of world duration and messianic timing: Various rabbinic computations of six thousand year cycles, Jubilee periods, and cryptic scroll predictions about the world’s end; With voices also rejecting calculating the end times
[pt3] Signs Immediately Preceding the Messiah’s Arrival
Resolving contradictory verses about the Messiah: Whether he comes ‘in its time’ or hastened, riding clouds or a donkey, depending on Israel’s merit
[pt4] Rabbinic Ambivalence: Fear of the “Birthpangs of Messiah”
Who Is the Messiah? Names, Candidates, and David’s Future Role
Parable of the rooster and bat: Warning against improper desire for the day of the Lord, with R’ Abbahu’s response to a heretic about when the Messiah will come
[pt5] Duration of the messianic era: Tannaitic dispute over whether it will last 40 years, 70 years, three generations, 365 years, 7000 years, or from Creation until now, with various scriptural proofs
Prophetic visions and rewards: Distinction between messianic era and World-to-Come, debate over penitents versus completely righteous, and rewards for supporters of Torah scholars, with interpretation of ‘no eye has seen’ in Isaiah 64:3
[pt6] Appendices
Appendix 1 - Conditional vs. Unconditional Redemption: A Major Tannaitic Dispute Between R’ Eliezer and R’ Yehoshua
Appendix 2 - The Story of Rav Tavut and the City Named “Truth” where even minor lies caused death
[pt7] Appendix 3 - The hierarchy of righteous people who perceive the Shekhina: row of the righteous before God extends 18,000 parasangs; 36 righteous people; 1,000 righteous people, or 100, or only 2
Appendix 4 - Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi meets the Messiah: Elijah’s directions to find the Messiah among the sick poor in Rome, the Messiah’s promise to come ‘today,’ and the conditional nature of that promise
Appendix 5 - Rabbi Yosei ben Kisma’s prophecy: The sign of Rome’s gate falling three times before the Messiah comes, the Cave of Pamyas turning to blood, and his instructions for deep burial
The Passage
The Character of the Messianic Generation; Moral and Social Collapse in the Messianic Era
(See footnote).5
Rav Naḥman - Messiah is called ‘bar niflei‘ (son of the fallen) based on ‘I will raise the fallen sukkah of David’ - Amos 9:11
אמר ליה רב נחמן לרבי יצחק: מי שמיע לך אימת אתי בר נפלי?
אמר ליה: מאן בר נפלי?
אמר ליה: משיח.
משיח “בר נפלי” קרית ליה?
אמר ליה:
אין,
דכתיב:
״ביום ההוא
אקים את סכת דויד הנפלת״.
§ Rav Naḥman said to R’ Yitzḥak: Have you heard when the son of giants [bar niflei] will come?
R’ Yitzḥak said to him: Who is the son of giants?
Rav Naḥman said to him: He is the Messiah.
R’ Yitzḥak asked him: Do you call the Messiah “son of giants”?
Rav Naḥman said to him:
Yes,
as it is written:
“On that day
I will establish the Tabernacle of David that is fallen [ha-nofelet]” (Amos 9:11).
That is why the Messiah is called bar nifli.
R. Yoḥanan - In the generation when ben David comes: Torah scholars decrease; public suffers grief; troubles and harsh decrees multiply, each before the previous has passed
אמר ליה:
הכי אמר רבי יוחנן:
דור שבן דוד בא בו --
תלמידי חכמים מתמעטים,
והשאר -- עיניהם כלות ביגון ואנחה,
וצרות רבות וגזרות קשות מתחדשות,
עד שהראשונה פקודה -- שניה ממהרת לבא.
R’ Yitzḥak said to him that
this is what R’ Yoḥanan says:
During the generation in which the Messiah, son of David (בן דוד), comes --
Torah scholars decrease;
and as for the rest of the people -- their eyes fail with sorrow and grief,
and troubles increase.
And the harsh decrees will be introduced;
before the first passes -- the second quickly comes.
Baraita - Seven-year cycle of the coming of the Messiah: 1st—selective rain; 2nd—arrows of famine; 3rd—great famine and Torah forgotten; 4th—limited plenty; 5th—great plenty and Torah returns; 6th—heavenly voices; 7th—wars (eg, Gog and Magog); after seventh—ben David comes - Amos 4:7
תנו רבנן:
שבוע שבן דוד בא בו --
שנה ראשונה
מתקיים מקרא זה: ״והמטרתי על עיר אחת ועל עיר אחת לא אמטיר״.
שניה,
חיצי רעב משתלחים.
שלישית,
רעב גדול, ומתים אנשים ונשים וטף, חסידים ואנשי מעשה,
ותורה משתכחת מלומדיה.
ברביעית,
שובע ואינו שובע.
בחמישית,
שובע גדול, ואוכלין ושותין ושמחין,
ותורה חוזרת ללומדיה.
בששית,
קולות.
בשביעית,
מלחמות.
במוצאי שביעית,
בן דוד בא.
A baraita states:
With regard to the 7-year period, i.e., the Sabbatical cycle, during which the Messiah, son of David, comes:
During the 1st year,
this verse will be fulfilled: “And I will cause it to rain upon one city and cause it not to rain upon another city” (Amos 4:7).
During the 2nd year of that period,
arrows of famine will be shot, indicating that there will be famine only in certain places.
During the 3rd year
there will be a great famine, and men, women, children, the pious, and men of action will die,
and the Torah is forgotten by those who study it.
During the 4th year
there will be plenty but not great plenty.
During the 5th year
there will be great plenty and they will eat, and drink, and rejoice,
and the Torah will return to those who study it.
During the 6th year,
heavenly voices will be heard.
During the 7th [=Sabbatical] Year ,
wars, e.g., the war of Gog and Magog, will be waged involving the Jewish people.
During the year after the conclusion of the Sabbatical Year,
the son of David will come.
Rav Yosef - Many Sabbatical cycles seemed to match this pattern, yet Messiah did not come; Abaye - The required signs—voices in the 6th year, wars in the 7th year—and in the stated order, have not yet fully occurred
אמר רב יוסף: הא כמה שבועי דהוה כן, ולא אתא!
אמר אביי:
בששית קולות, בשביעית מלחמות – מי הוה?
ועוד, כסדרן מי הוה?
Rav Yosef said: Haven’t there been several Sabbatical cycles during which events transpired in that manner and nevertheless, the Messiah did not come?
Abaye said:
Have the phenomena: During the 6th year, heavenly voices, and during the 7th [=Sabbatical] Year, wars, transpired?
And furthermore, have all these phenomena transpired in the order in which they were listed in the baraita?
R. Yehuda - In Messiah’s generation: rabbinic assembly house becomes a den of immorality; Galilee destroyed; Gavlan desolate; border refugees shunned; scholars’ wisdom stinks; God-fearing despised; the generation’s ‘face’ is like a dog - Psalms 89:52
״אשר חרפו אויביך ה׳
אשר חרפו עקבות משיחך״.
תניא:
רבי יהודה אומר:
דור שבן דוד בא בו –
בית הוועד יהיה לזנות,
והגליל יחרב,
והגבלן יאשם,
ואנשי גבול יסובבו מעיר לעיר ולא יחוננו,
וחכמת הסופרים תסרח,
ויראי חטא ימאסו,
ופני הדור כפני כלב.
״והאמת נעדרת״,
שנאמר: ״ותהי האמת נעדרת וסר מרע משתולל״.
The verse states: “That Your enemies taunted, YHWH,
that they have taunted the footsteps of Your anointed” (Psalms 89:52).
It is taught in a baraita that
R’ Yehuda says:
During the generation that the son of David comes --
the hall of the assembly of the rabbis will be designated for prostitution,
and the Galilee will be destroyed,
and the Gavlan, i.e., Bashan, will be desolate,
and the residents of the border who flee the neighboring non-Jews will circulate from city to city and will receive no sympathy.
The wisdom of scholars will diminish,
and sin-fearing people will be despised.
And the face of the generation will be like the face of a dog in its impudence and shamelessness.
And the truth will be lacking,
as it is stated: “And the truth is lacking,6 and he who departs from evil is negated” (Isaiah 59:15).
Rav’s School - ‘Truth is lacking’ = truth becomes scattered like flocks - Isaiah 59:15
מאי ״ותהי האמת נעדרת״?
אמרי דבי רב:
מלמד ש:
נעשית עדרים עדרים והולכת לה.
What is the meaning of the phrase: “And the truth is lacking?”
The rabbis of the study hall of Rav said:
This teaches that
truth will become like so many “flocks” [adarim] and walk away.
R. Sheila’s School - ‘He who departs from evil is deemed insane’ - Isaiah 59:15
מאי
״וסר מרע —
משתולל״?
אמרי דבי רבי שילא:
כל מי שסר מרע --
משתולל על הבריות.
What is the meaning of the phrase:
“And he that departs from evil —
is negated”?7
The rabbis of the study hall of R’ Sheila said:
Anyone who deviates from evil --
is deemed insane by the people.
[...]
R. Nehorai - In Messiah’s generation: youths shame elders; elders stand for youths; daughter against mother; bride against mother-in-law; face of the generation like a dog; son unashamed before father
תניא:
רבי נהוראי אומר:
דור שבן דוד בא בו –
נערים ילבינו פני זקנים,
וזקנים יעמדו לפני נערים,
ובת קמה באמה,
וכלה בחמותה,
ופני הדור כפני כלב,
ואין הבן מתבייש מאביו.
The Talmud resumes its discussion of the messianic period.
It is taught in a baraita that
R’ Nehorai says:
During the generation in which the son of David comes --
youths will humiliate elders
and elders will stand in deference before youths,
and a daughter will rebel against her mother,
and a bride against her mother-in-law,
and the face of the generation will be like the face of a dog,
and a son will not be ashamed before his father.
R. Neḥemya - In Messiah’s generation: arrogance proliferates; cost of living corrupts; vine yields but wine costly; entire kingdom turns to heresy; no reproach accepted
תניא:
רבי נחמיה אומר:
דור שבן דוד בא בו --
העזות תרבה,
והיוקר יעות,
והגפן יתן פריו, והיין ביוקר,
ונהפכה כל המלכות למינות,
ואין תוכחה.
It is taught in a baraita that
R’ Neḥemya says:
During the generation that the son of David comes --
arrogance will proliferate
and the cost (יוקר) of living will corrupt (יעות) people so they will engage in deceit.
The vine will produce its fruit, and nevertheless, the wine will be costly.
And the entire non-Jew monarchy will be converted to the heresy (מינות) of Christianity,
and there will be no inclination among the people to accept rebuke.
R. Yitzḥak - Messiah will not come until the entire kingdom turns to heresy; Rava - Derives the above by analogy to tzara’at: when all is turned white, it is pure - Leviticus 13:13
מסייע ליה לרבי יצחק,
דאמר רבי יצחק: אין בן דוד בא עד שתתהפך כל המלכות למינות.
אמר רבא:
מאי קרא?
״כלו הפך לבן טהור הוא״.
This baraita supports the opinion of R’ Yitzḥak,
as R’ Yitzḥak says: The son of David will not come until the entire kingdom will be converted to heresy.
Rava says:
What is the verse from which this statement is derived?
It is the verse: “It is all turned white; he is ritually pure” (Leviticus 13:13).
One is a metzora and ritually impure only if he has a leprous mark, however small, but not if his skin is completely leprous. Similarly, the world will be redeemed only when the Jewish people reach their lowest point.
Baraita - Messiah will not come until informers proliferate; Torah students diminish; coin (peruta) ceases from the purse; people despair of redemption - Deuteronomy 32:36
תנו רבנן:
״כי ידין ה׳ עמו [וגו׳]
כי יראה כי אזלת יד ואפס עצור ועזוב״.
אין בן דוד בא עד שירבו המסורות.
דבר אחר: עד שיתמעטו התלמידים.
דבר אחר: עד שתכלה פרוטה מן הכיס.
דבר אחר: עד שיתייאשו מן הגאולה,
שנאמר: ״ואפס עצור ועזוב״ – כביכול אין סומך ועוזר לישראל.
A baraita states:
The verse states: “For YHWH shall judge His people and atone for His servants,
when He sees that their power is gone and there is none shut up or left” (Deuteronomy 32:36).
From the phrase “their power is gone” it is derived that the son of David will not come until informers will proliferate.
Alternatively, the Messiah will not come until the number of students of Torah diminishes.
Alternatively, the Messiah will not come until the peruta will cease from the purse.
Alternatively, the Messiah will not come until they despair from the redemption,
as it is stated: “And there is none shut up or left,” as though there were no supporter or helper for the Jewish people.
Compare my “Outline of Sanhedrin 10 (Perek Chelek)” at ChavrutAI, I partially use that for the main section headers in this series.
And see my “Between This World and the Next: Talmudic Conceptions of the World-to-Come and Resurrection of the Dead”, where I touch on a number of related topics.
Unrelated, further episodes from the excellent new podcast series with Prof. Yishay Rosen-Zvi on “Chapters in Talmudic Thought” (Hebrew):
It’s worth noting that the typical term used by the sugya to refer to the Messiah is “son of David” (בן דוד).
“Son” in this context means “descendant”; meaning, one of Davidic lineage.
Compare Hebrew Wikipedia, “חישוב הקץ”, especially section “בימי המשנה והתלמוד”.
See also my “The Challenge of Unfulfilled Biblical Prophecies and Failed Messianic Predictions Throughout Jewish History”.
Described as “the most explicit sign”. On the theme of agricultural abundance in Eretz Yisrael, see my recent two-part series, “Eretz Yisrael’s Miraculous Agricultural Fertility: Past, Present, and Future (Ketubot 111b-112a)“, final part here. See especially ibid., “Part 1: The miraculous agricultural fertility that Eretz Yisrael will have in the Messianic era”.
Compare my pieces on Mishnah Sotah 9:9-15, which partially parallels the discussion here:
“The End of an Era: The Mishnah on Societal Decline and the Discontinuation of Rituals (Mishnah Sotah 9:9-15)”, two-part series, final part here
“ ”On Whom Can We Rely?” Literary Laments of a Fallen Society in the Mishnah (Mishnah Sotah 9:15)”
נעדרת - ne’ederet.
This word is literary/archaic. Consequently, the Talmud in the next section questions its meaning (or usage) and offers an explanation derived from wordplay/folk etymology.
משתולל.
The Talmud specifically interprets this word.
For the actual meaning of this word in this context, see the Ben-Yehuda Dictionary, entry “א. שָׁלַל“:
— הִתפ’, אֶשְׁתּוֹלֲלוּ, מִשְׁתּוֹלֵל,
— הִשְׁתּוֹלֵל, היה נעדר או משולל דבר, כגון משולל בגדים או משולל יכֹלת, נטלו חושיו7:
ותהי האמת נעדרת וסר מרע מִשְׁתּוֹלֵל8 (ישע’ נט יה).
אֶשְׁתּוֹלֲלוּ אבירי לב נמו שנתם ולא מצאו אנשי חיל ידיהם (תהל’ עו ו).
And in footnote 8, he discusses our passage:
[בדברי רב שילא (סנה’ צז.) על כתוב זה: כל מי שסר מרע משתולל על הבריות, בא משתולל כנראה במק’ מסתולל, מן ד. סָלַל, וקשה לקבל את פירוש רש”י: כל העולם אומרין עליו שהוא שוטה, והיינו משתולל לשון שטות כמו מוליך יועצים שולל.]