Pt2 Alexander the Great’s Dialogue with the Elders of the Negev: Philosophical Insights on Creation, Life, and Power (Tamid 32a)

This is the second and final part of a two-part series. Part 1 is here, the outline can be found there.

Definitions of Wisdom, Might, and Wealth

Questions: Alexander sought definitions for wise, strong, and wealthy.

Answers:

1. Wisdom: The ability to foresee and anticipate the consequences of one’s actions (based on Avot 2:9).

2. Might: Mastery over one’s desires (Avot 4:1).

3. Wealth: Contentment with one’s portion (Avot 4:1).

1. אמר להם: אידין מתקרי חכים?

   1. אמרו ליה: איזהו חכם – הרואה את הנולד.

2. אמר להם: אידין מתקרי גבור?

   1. אמרו לו: איזהו גבור – הכובש את יצרו.

3. אמר להן: אידין מתקרי עשיר?

   1. אמרו ליה: איזהו עשיר – השמח בחלקו.

1. Alexander said to the Elders: Who is truly worthy of being called wise?

   1. They said to him, citing a tradition (see Avot 2:9): Who is the wise person? The one who sees and anticipates the consequences of his behavior.

2. He said to them: Who is truly worthy of being called mighty?

   1. They said to him, again citing a tradition (see Avot 4:1): Who is the mighty person? The one who masters his desire.

3. He said to them: Who is worthy of being called wealthy?

   1. They said to him: Who is the wealthy person? The one who is pleased with his own portion (see Avot 4:1).

Causes of Life and Death

Questions: Alexander asked what ensures life or leads to death.

Answers:

1. To live, one must figuratively (and counter-intuitively) “kill oneself" (i.e. live ascetically).¹

2. To die, one should figuratively (and counter-intuitively) “make himself live” (יחיה את עצמו - i.e. live indulgently and extravagantly).

1. אמר להן: מה יעביד איניש ויחיה?

   1. אמרו ליה: ימית עצמו.

2. מה יעביד איניש וימות?

   1. יחיה את עצמו.

1. He said to them: What must a man do and thereby ensure that he will live?

   1. They said to him: Such a man must figuratively kill himself, by living moderately.

2. Alexander further inquired: What must a man do and ensure that he will die?

   1. They said to him: Such a man must keep himself alive, i.e., lead an extravagant and indulgent life.

Gaining Social Acceptance

Question: Alexander inquired how to gain people’s favor.

Answer: The Elders advised hating authority (מלכו ושלטן - based on Avot 1:10).

Alexander disagreed, suggesting that loving the authorities and using connections for public good is more effective.

אמר להן: מה יעביד איניש ויתקבל על ברייתא?

אמרו: יסני מלכו ושלטן.

אמר להו:

דידי טבא מדידכו:

ירחם מלכו ושלטן,

ויעבד טיבו עם בני אינשא.

He said to them: What must a man do and ensure that he will be accepted by people?

They said to Alexander: He must hate the king and the authorities and avoid becoming too close to those in power.

Alexander rejected their answer and said to them:

My advice for gaining people’s favor is better than yours.

One who wants to be accepted must love the king and the authorities,

but he must use his connections to perform beneficial acts for people.

Life at Sea vs. Land

Question: Is it better to live at sea or on land?

Answer: The Elders state that life on dry land is better, as the minds of seafarers (נחותי ימא) are unsettled until they return to land.²

אמר להן: בימא יאי למידר, או ביבשתא יאי למידר?

אמרו ליה:

ביבשתא יאי למידר,

דהא כל נחותי ימא לא מיתבא דעתיהון עד דסלקין ליבשתא.

He said to them: Is it better for a person to live at sea, or is it better to live on dry land?

They said to him:

It is better to live on dry land,

as all seafarers, their minds are constantly unsettled until they reach the dry land.

Collective Wisdom

Question: Who among the Elders is the wisest?

Answer: The Elders claimed equality in wisdom, as they collectively solved (פתרנא) all Alexander’s queries unanimously.

אמר להן: אידין מנכון חכים יתיר?

אמרו לו:

כולנא כחדא שוויין,

דהא כל מילתא דאמרת לנא – בחד פתרנא לך.

He said to them: Who among you is wiser than the others?

They said to him:

We are all equal in wisdom,

as every matter that you say to us, we solve for you unanimously.

Confrontation with the Jewish Elders

Alexander confronts the Jewish Elders, rhetorically questioning their opposition to his rule (asserting the superiority of his lifestyle due to his majority support).

The Elders counter, stating that “Satan (סטנא) is victorious”.³

Angered, Alexander threatens execution. They responded that the king has the authority to act as he wishes, but it would be unworthy of a king.⁴

Moved by their words, Alexander honors them with purple (ארגוון) garments and golden necklaces (מניכא).

אמר להן: מה דין אתריסתון לקבלי?!

אמרו ליה: סטנא נצח.

אמר להן: הא אנא מקטילנא יתכון בגזירת מלכין

אמרו ליה: שלטן ביד מלכא, ולא יאי למלכא כזב.

מיד אלביש יתהון לבושין דארגוון, ושדי מניכא דדהבא על צואריהון.

He said to them: What is the substance of this stance, by which you, the Jewish people, oppose me?! Since you are my subjects, and my people constitute the majority, you should concede that our lifestyle is superior.

They said to him: Your dominance is inconsequential, as sometimes even the Satan is victorious, by convincing people to act in a manner that is clearly incorrect.

He said to them: Consequently, due to your insolence, I am executing you by the edict of kings.

They said to him: Certainly, the authority is in the hand of the king to execute as you wish; but falsehood is unbecoming for the king, and you have pledged not to harm us.

Immediately, Alexander dressed them in garments of purple and placed golden chains [menaykha] upon their necks.

Appendix - Table Summarizing the Twelve Question and Answers

1. ימית עצמו .

This metaphorical phrase appears a number of times in talmudic literature (see search results here), especially regarding “killing oneself” (i.e. dedicating one’s life) for Torah study.

For example, see Berakhot.63b.14:

אמר ריש לקיש:

מנין שאין דברי תורה מתקיימין אלא במי שממית עצמו עליה —

שנאמר: ״זאת התורה אדם כי ימות באהל״.

Reish Lakish said:

From where is it derived that matters of Torah are only retained by one who kills himself over it?

As it is stated: “This is the Torah: When one dies in a tent” (Numbers 19:14); true Torah study demands the total devotion of one who is willing to dedicate his life in the tent of Torah.

Re living ascetically in order to dedicate oneself to Torah, see Avot.6.4 (which I also quote in a note in my piece here):

כך היא דרכה של תורה:

1. פת במלח תאכל,

2. ומים במשורה תשתה,

3. ועל הארץ תישן,

4. וחיי צער תחיה,

5. ובתורה אתה עמל,

[…]

Such is the way [of a life] of Torah:

1. you shall eat bread with salt,

2. and rationed water shall you drink;

3. you shall sleep on the ground,

4. your life will be one of privation (צער - literally: “pain”),

5. and in Torah shall you labor.

2. Compare Mishnah_Nedarim.3.6:

הנודר מיורדי הים, מתר ביושבי היבשה.

מיושבי היבשה, אסור ביורדי הים,

שיורדי הים בכלל יושבי היבשה.

לא כאלו שהולכין מעכו ליפו,

אלא במי שדרכו לפרש

In the case of one who takes a vow that he will not derive benefit from seafarers, he is permitted to benefit from those who live on dry land.

But if he takes a vow not to derive benefit from those who live on dry land, he is also prohibited from deriving benefit from seafarers,

because seafarers are included within the category of those who live on dry land.

The mishna now defines seafarers:

Not like those that travel by ship from Akko to Jaffa, which is a short trip,

but rather one who customarily departs [lefaresh] to distant locations, e.g., foreign countries.

3. Meaning, dominance can stem from Satan. This could mean either that Alexander’s triumphs were a result of Satan's influence, or that, because dominance can originate from Satan, it cannot serve as definitive proof, as there may be causes for success other than philosophical correctness.

4. לא יאי למלכא כזב - literally: “A lie isn’t fitting for a king”.

The specific lie is unclear.