Sex, Sin, and Salvation: Tamudic Tales of Controversially Kissing a Sister, Confession of Incest, and Encounters With Prostitutes (Avodah Zarah 17a)

This piece explores a cluster of Talmudic stories in Avodah Zarah 17a that revolve around sex, temptation, and repentance. The common thread is not just sexual misconduct itself, but how figures - both commoners and rabbis - confront, rationalize, or overcome it. Some succeed, others don't.

First, Ulla’s case is presented. Ulla would kiss his sisters on the hands (or possibly the chest) when returning from study, despite having himself taught that one should avoid even casual intimacy with forbidden women. The Talmud flags this as a contradiction between his actions and his own principles, exposing a basic tension between theory and practice.

Next is a disturbing confession heard by Rav Hisda: a woman admits her “[most] minor sin” was conceiving a child through incest with her older son. Rav Hisda predicts her imminent death - which never materializes. The scene reads almost like a failed oracle, hinting at the limits of rabbinic authority or prediction.

The most famous story here is that of Elazar ben Durdaya, a man so given over to sexual indulgence that he is said to have visited every prostitute in the world. A moment of humiliation with one prostitute triggers a sudden turn toward repentance. When he realizes no force of nature can intercede for him, he cries himself to death, and a divine voice proclaims him worthy of the World-to-Come. His story frames repentance as simultaneously individual, desperate, and salvific.

Finally, the story of R’ Hanina and R’ Yonatan contrasts two paths: idol worship or a brothel. They deliberately choose the brothel path to confront their desires head-on, betting on their Torah study to protect them. The prostitutes retreat in respect, and the rabbis' confidence in the protective power of Torah is vindicated.

Each episode shows different reactions to sexual impulse - compromise, shame, repentance, and triumph.

Outline

1. Ulla’s controversial practice of kissing his sisters on their hands and chests

2. Story: woman came before Rav Hisda to confess child from incest; and his prediction of her death

3. Story of Eliezer ben Durdaya

   1. “Elazar ben Durdaya had sex with every prostitute in the world”

   2. Arduous Travel to Meet the High-End Prostitute, the Dinarii, and the Damning Fart

   3. Plea to Natural Entities, But None Is Willing to Intercede

   4. He Put His Head Between His Knees and Died Crying: The Repentance of Elazar ben Durdaya

4. R’ Ḥanina and R’ Yonatan at a Crossroads: Pass by Site of Pagan Worship or Site of Brothel?; Taking the Brothel Path to Tempt the Evil Inclination, and the Prostitutes Backed Away

The Passage

Avodah_Zarah.17a.6-17b.1

Ulla’s controversial practice of kissing his sisters on their hands and chests

The Talmud recounts that Ulla would kiss his sisters on their hands (or some say, on their chests) when returning from the study hall.

The Talmud status that this action appears contradictory to a ruling Ulla himself issued: he stated that mere intimacy with a woman one is forbidden to have sexual relations with is prohibited, by analogy to the recommendation to the Nazirite, to whom we say: "Go around (סחור), don’t come near the vineyard." ¹

עולא,

כי הוה אתי מבי רב,

הוה מנשק להו לאחתיה אבי ידייהו

ואמרי לה: אבי חדייהו

ופליגא דידיה אדידיה

דאמר עולא:

קריבה בעלמא אסור,

משום:

לך לך

אמרין נזירא,

סחור סחור,

לכרמא לא תקרב

[...]

The Gemara relates: Ulla

When would come from the study hall,

he would kiss his sisters on their hands.

And some say: On their chests.

And the Gemara points out that this action of his disagrees with another ruling that Ulla himself issued,

as Ulla says:

Mere intimacy with a woman with whom one is prohibited from engaging in sexual intercourse is prohibited,

due to the maxim:

Go, go,

we say to a nazirite,

go around, go around

but do not come near to the vineyard.

Just as a nazirite is warned not even to come into close proximity of a vineyard lest he consume a product of the vine, so too one is obligated to distance himself from anyone with whom intercourse is forbidden.

[...]

Story: woman came before Rav Hisda to confess child from incest; and his prediction of her death

A woman confessed to Rav Ḥisda that her “most minor” sin was conceiving her younger son via sex with her older son.

Rav Ḥisda told her to prepare (funeral) shrouds (זוודתא) for herself (i.e. predicting her imminent death).

However, in fact, she did not (soon after) die.²

ההיא דאתאי לקמיה דרב חסדא

ואמרה ליה:

קלה שבקלות

עשתה בנה הקטן מבנה הגדול

ואמר לה רב חסדא: טרחו לה בזוודתא

ולא מתה

[...]

A woman came before Rav Ḥisda to confess to him,

and she said to him:

The lightest of the light, i.e., the least of the sins that she committed,

is that she conceived her younger son from engaging in intercourse with her older son.

And Rav Ḥisda said to her: Prepare funeral shrouds for her, i.e., yourself, as you will certainly die soon,

but she did not die.

[...]

Story of Eliezer ben Durdaya

“Elazar ben Durdayya had sex with every prostitute in the world”

The Talmud quotes a baraita that recounts the story of Elazar ben Durdaya. He was known for his extreme promiscuity, having had sex with “every prostitute in the world”.

תניא:

אמרו עליו על ר"א בן דורדיא,

שלא הניח זונה אחת בעולם שלא בא עליה

taught in a baraita:

They said about R' Elazar ben Durdayya that

he was so promiscuous that he did not leave one prostitute in the world with whom he did not engage in sexual intercourse.

Arduous Travel to Meet the High-End Prostitute, the Dinarii, and the Damning Fart

Upon hearing of a renowned and highly expensive³ prostitute in the “cities of the sea”,⁴ he traveled across seven rivers to reach her.

During their sexual encounter,⁵ she flatulated (הפיחה), leading her to declare that, just as the flatulence would not return, Elazar ben Durdaya's repentance would never be accepted.

פעם אחת,

שמע שיש זונה אחת בכרכי הים,

והיתה נוטלת כיס דינרין בשכרה

נטל כיס דינרין,

והלך ועבר עליה שבעה נהרות

בשעת הרגל דבר, הפיחה

אמרה:

כשם שהפיחה זו — אינה חוזרת למקומה,

כך אלעזר בן דורדיא — אין מקבלין אותו בתשובה

Once,

he heard that there was one prostitute in one of the cities overseas

who would take a purse full of dinars as her payment.

He took a purse full of dinars

and went and crossed seven rivers to reach her.

When they were engaged in the matters to which they were accustomed, a euphemism for intercourse, she passed wind

and said:

Just as this passed wind — will not return to its place,

so too Elazar ben Durdayya — will not be accepted in repentance, even if he were to try to repent.

Plea to Natural Entities, But None Is Willing to Intercede

Shocked, Elazar ben Durdayya turned to various pairs in nature for intercession (“request [בקשו] mercy [רחמים] for me"):

1. Mountains and hills (הרים וגבעות)

2. Heavens and earth (שמים וארץ)

3. Sun and moon (חמה ולבנה)

4. Stars and constellations/ zodiac (כוכבים ומזלות)

However they all refused, stating they had to prioritize praying for themselves. Their need to pray for themselves is homiletically supported by biblical verses, for each one.

הלך וישב בין שני הרים וגבעות

1. 1. אמר: הרים וגבעות, בקשו עלי רחמים

   2. אמרו לו: עד שאנו מבקשים עליך, נבקש על עצמנו

   3. שנאמר [...]

2. 1. אמר: שמים וארץ, בקשו עלי רחמים

   2. אמרו: עד שאנו מבקשים עליך, נבקש על עצמנו

   3. שנאמר [...]

3. 1. אמר: חמה ולבנה, בקשו עלי רחמים

   2. אמרו לו: עד שאנו מבקשים עליך, נבקש על עצמנו

   3. שנאמר [...]

4. 1. אמר: כוכבים ומזלות, בקשו עלי רחמים

   2. אמרו לו: עד שאנו מבקשים עליך, נבקש על עצמנו

   3. שנאמר [...]

This statement deeply shocked Elazar ben Durdayya,

and he went and sat between two mountains and hills

1. 1. and said: Mountains and hills, pray for mercy on my behalf, so that my repentance will be accepted.

   2. They said to him: Before we pray for mercy on your behalf, we must pray for mercy on our own behalf,

   3. as it is stated: [...]

2. 1. He said: Heaven and earth, pray for mercy on my behalf.

   2. They said to him: Before we pray for mercy on your behalf, we must pray for mercy on our own behalf,

   3. as it is stated: [...]

3. 1. He said: Sun and moon, pray for mercy on my behalf.

   2. They said to him: Before we pray for mercy on your behalf, we must pray for mercy on our own behalf,

   3. as it is stated: [...]

4. 1. He said: Stars and constellations, pray for mercy on my behalf.

   2. They said to him: Before we pray for mercy on your behalf, we must pray for mercy on our own behalf,

   3. as it is stated: [...]

He Put His Head Between His Knees and Died Crying: The Repentance of Elazar ben Durdayya

Realizing that his (spiritual) fate depended solely on himself, he placed his head between his knees and cried (געה בבכיה) until he died.

A bat kol then proclaimed him destined for the World-to-Come.

אמר: אין הדבר תלוי אלא בי

הניח ראשו בין ברכיו,

וגעה בבכיה,

עד שיצתה נשמתו

יצתה בת קול ואמרה:

ר"א בן דורדיא מזומן לחיי העולם הבא

[...]

Elazar ben Durdayya said: Clearly the matter depends on nothing other than myself.

He placed his head between his knees

and cried loudly

until his soul left his body.

A Divine Voice emerged and said:

R' Elazar ben Durdayya is destined for life in the World-to-Come.

[...]

R’ Ḥanina and R’ Yonatan at a Crossroads: Pass by Site of Pagan Worship or Site of Brothel?; Taking the Brothel Path to Tempt the Evil Inclination, and the Prostitutes Backed Away

The Talmud tells a story about R' Ḥanina and R' Yonatan, who reached a fork in the road: one leading to a site of pagan worship (עובדה זרה - “idolatry”) and the other to a brothel (בי זונות - “house of prostitutes”).

One suggested they take the path to the site of pagan worship, as the inclination for idol worship no longer exists.⁶

The other preferred the path to the brothel to resist temptation and earn a reward.

They ended up doing the latter: taking the brothel path.

When they passed by the brothel, the prostitutes retreated.⁷

ר' חנינא ור' יונתן הוו קאזלי באורחא

מטו להנהו תרי שבילי:

• חד — פצי אפיתחא דעבודת כוכבים,

• וחד — פצי אפיתחא דבי זונות

אמר ליה חד לחבריה:

ניזיל אפיתחא דעבודת כוכבים,

דנכיס יצריה

א"ל אידך:

ניזיל אפיתחא דבי זונות,

ונכפייה ליצרין,

ונקבל אגרא

כי מטו התם,

חזינהו [לזונות] איתכנעו מקמייהו

[...]

In relation to the issue of distancing oneself from idol worship and prostitution, the Gemara relates:

R' Ḥanina and R' Yonatan were once walking along the road

when they came to a certain two paths,

• one of which branched off toward the entrance of a place of idol worship,

• and the other one branched off toward the entrance of a brothel.

One said to the other:

Let us go by the path that leads to the entrance of the place of idol worship,

as the inclination to engage in idol worship has been slaughtered and the temptation to sin in this manner no longer exists.

The other said to him:

Let us go by the path that leads to the entrance of the brothel

and overpower our inclination,

and thereby receive a reward.

When they arrived there,

they saw that the prostitutes yielded before their presence, i.e., they entered the building out of respect for the Sages.

[...]

1. I.e. just as a Nazirite is advised to avoid even approaching a vineyard to prevent consuming grapes/wine (which are biblically prohibited to him), one must also avoid close contact with those forbidden for sexual relations.

2. For another story of an amora predicting the (imminent) death of a commoner woman, due to her actions, see my previous piece on the woman who grieved too much on the death of her children; similar language is used there - זוודתא.

In that case, the Talmud states that she in fact ended up dying (soon after), as predicted.

3. נוטלת כיס דינרין בשכרה - literally: “she would take a purse of dinarii as her fee”.

“Purse/cup of a dinarii” is a common Talmudic idiom of a large amount of money

4. כרכי הים - on the meaning of the this Talmudic idiom, see my note in my previous piece.

5. הרגל דבר - literally: “the regularity (הרגל) of the thing (דבר)”; a euphemism for sex.

6. נכיס יצריה - literally: “its inclination (יצריה - i.e. to engage in idol worship) was slaughtered (נכיס)“.

On this slaughtering, see my piece “Taming the Fire and The Cost of Desire: The Dramatic Talmudic Story of the Quelling of Human Inclinations for Idolatry and Incest (Yoma 69b = Sanhedrin 64a)“, especially section “Prophet Zechariah's Solution: Trapping the Evil Inclination in a Lead Container to Silence its Cries“.

I summarize in my intro there:

This Talmudic sugya narrates a dramatic episode in which the Jewish people, during the time of Nehemiah, prayed for the removal of the inclination for idolatry.

Their prayer was answered when a fiery lion cub appeared in the Temple, an incarnation of this inclination.

The prophet Zechariah advised trapping it in a lead container to silence its cries.

Following this success, the people also sought to remove the inclination for sex […]

7. איתכנעו מקמייהו - literally: “they cringed in front of them”; presumably, out of respect or shame.

The Talmud goes on to say that when asked how he knew this would happen, one of the rabbis quoted Proverbs 2:11, implying that Torah study safeguards against lewdness.

Compare the story in my piece here, section “Divine Praise for Bachelor With Sexual Restraint; Rav Safra as Bachelor; Rav Ḥanina and Rav Oshaya as Bachelors in a marketplace of prostitutes”, which notably also features R’ Ḥanina.

I summarize there:

[….] Rav Ḥanina and Rav Oshaya [were] cobblers (אושכפי) in a ‘marketplace of prostitutes’ (i.e. a souk that was a hub of prostitution) in Eretz Yisrael.

Despite their surroundings, they never looked at the women, earning the prostitutes' respect, who swore (מומתייהו) by the holiness of these Sages as follows: “By the lives of the holy rabbis (רבנן קדישי) of Eretz Yisrael”.

(‘Rav’ is likely a mistake there, both should be ‘Rabbi', the standard honorific for rabbis in Eretz Yisrael; ‘Rav’ is the honorific in Babylonia.)