Pt2 From Sodomite Salt to Demonic Gutters: The Hidden Truths Behind Talmudic Eating Practices (Chullin 105b-106a)
Pt2 From Sodomite Salt to Demonic Gutters: The Hidden Truths Behind Talmudic Eating Practices (Chullin 105b-106a)
Reason for not eating vegetables from a bundle: witchcraft; story of incantations of a matron, and sages on a boat; reason for not sitting under gutters: demons; story of demon
This is the second and final installment of a two-part series. The first part is here.
The true reason for avoiding eating vegetables from a gardener's tied bundle: witchcraft; story of incantations of a matron, Rav Ḥisda, and Rabba bar Rav Huna on a boat
Abaye initially believed that people avoided eating vegetables from a gardener's tied bundle (כישא דאסר גינאה) because it appeared gluttonous, as one would eat without untying the bundle. However, he was later informed that the real reason was to avoid vulnerability to witchcraft.
The Talmud then tells a story about Rav Ḥisda and Rabba bar Rav Huna, who were on a boat (ארבא) when a “matron”1 asked to sit with them. When they refused, she used an incantation2 to stop the boat. They countered her spell with their own and freed the boat.
The matron admitted that her witchcraft was ineffective against Rav Ḥisda and Rabba bar Rav Huna because they followed three protective practices:
they did not wipe themselves with an earthenware shard (חספא) after defecating3
they did not kill lice found on their garments,
they did not eat vegetables from a tied bundle.
ואמר אביי:
מריש הוה אמינא
האי דלא אכלי ירקא מכישא דאסר גינאה, משום דמיחזי כרעבתנותא
אמר לי מר: משום דקשי לכשפים
רב חסדא ורבה בר רב הונא הוו קאזלי בארבא
אמרה להו ההיא מטרוניתא: אותבן בהדייכו
לא אותבוה
אמרה מלתא, אסרתה לארבא
אמרו אינהו מילתא, שריוה
אמרה להו: מאי איעביד לכו,
דלא מקנח לכו בחספא
ולא קטיל לכו כינה אמנייכו
ולא אכיל לכו ירקא מכישא דאסר גינאה
And Abaye said:
At first I would say that
the reason for this practice that people do not eat vegetables from a bundle tied by the gardener is because it has the appearance of gluttony, as he does not wait to untie the bundle to eat.
But the Master said to me that it is because it is bad for one’s vulnerability to witchcraft.
The Gemara relates: Rav Ḥisda and Rabba bar Rav Huna were traveling on a boat.
A certain matron said to them: Seat me together with you on the boat,
but they did not seat her alongside them.
She said something, an incantation, and thereby tied the boat to its spot so that it could not move.
They too said something and thereby released it.
That matron said to them: What can I do to you? Witchcraft has no power over you,
as after attending to your bodily functions, you do not wipe yourselves with an earthenware shard,
and you do not kill a louse that you find on your garments,
and you do not eat vegetables from a bundle tied by the gardener.
The true reason for avoiding eating vegetables that fell on the table: bad breath
Abaye initially thought that people avoided eating vegetables that fell on the table because it was considered repulsive.
However, his teacher informed him that the real reason was that it could cause bad breath.
ואמר אביי:
מריש הוה אמינא
האי דלא אכלי ירקא דנפל אתכא, משום מאיסותא
אמר לי מר: משום דקשה לריח הפה
And Abaye said:
At first I would say as follows: The reason for this practice that people do not eat vegetables that fell on the table is because it is replusive.
But the Master said to me that it is because it is bad for halitosis.
The true reason for avoiding sitting under gutters: demons; story of demon and Mar bar Rav Ashi
Abaye initially believed that people avoided sitting under gutters (מרזיבא) due to the waste water (שופכים) pouring from them. However, he was informed that the real reason was the presence of demons (מזיקין - mazzikin).
The Talmud tells a story of porters (שקולאי) who rested a wine container4 under a gutter, causing it to burst.5 They consulted Mar bar Rav Ashi, who blew shofar, and excommunicated the demon responsible.6 The demon explained that the barrel was placed on its ear, causing it to act. Mar bar Rav Ashi chastised the demon for being in a populated area and demanded compensation for the damaged barrel. The demon requested time to gather the money. Mar bar Rav Ashi gave the demon a deadline to pay for the damaged barrel.
When the demon missed the deadline, Mar bar Rav Ashi questioned the delay. The demon explained that it could only take items that are not tied up, sealed, measured (כייל), or counted. Since demons have no authority to take anything that belongs to someone, it took the demon a long time to find enough ownerless money to make the payment.
ואמר אביי:
מריש הוה אמינא
האי דלא יתבי תותי מרזיבא, משום שופכים
אמר לי מר: משום דשכיחי מזיקין
הנהו שקולאי, דהוו דרו חביתא דחמרא
בעו לאיתפוחי, אותבוה תותי מרזיבא
פקעה
אתו לקמיה דמר בר רב אשי
אפיק שיפורי, שמתיה
אתא לקמיה
אמר ליה: אמאי תעביד הכי?
אמר ליה: היכי אעביד כי אותביה באונאי?!
אמר ליה: את בדוכתא דשכיחי רבים מאי בעית?!
את הוא דשנית, זיל שלים
אמר ליה: השתא נמי, ליקבע לי מר זימנא, ואפרע
קבע ליה זימנא
כי מטא זימנא, איעכב
כי אתא, אמר ליה: אמאי לא אתית בזמנך?
אמר ליה:
כל מילי ד
צייר
וחתים
וכייל
ומני
לית לן רשותא למשקל מיניה
עד דמשכחינן מידי דהפקרא
And Abaye said:
At first I would say that
the reason for this practice that people do not sit under a gutter is because of the waste water that pours out of it.
But the Master said to me that it is because demons are commonly found there.
The Gemara relates: There were certain porters who were carrying a barrel of wine.
When they wanted to rest, they placed it under a gutter
and the barrel burst.
They came before Mar bar Rav Ashi, who brought out horns and had them blown as he excommunicated the demon of that place.
The demon came before Mar bar Rav Ashi,
and the Sage said to it: Why did you do this?
The demon said to him: How else should I act, when these men place a barrel on my ear?!
Mar bar Rav Ashi said to it: What are you doing in a place where many people are found?!
You are the one who deviated from the norm; go and pay them the value of the barrel of wine.
The demon said to him: Let the Master now set a time for me, so that I can find the money, and I will pay.
Mar bar Rav Ashi set a time for his payment.
When that time arrived, the demon delayed in coming to pay.
When the demon eventually came, Mar bar Rav Ashi said to it: Why did you not come at the time set for you?
The demon said to him:
With regard to any item that is
tied up,
or sealed,
or measured,
or counted,
we have no authority to take it.
We are unable to obtain money until we find an ownerless item. For this reason, it took him a long time to find enough money to pay for the barrel.
The true reason for Pouring Water from a Pitcher: bad water; story of the demon servant of Rav Pappa
Abaye initially believed that people pour out a little water before drinking to avoid twigs, but he later learned it was due to the presence of foul waters.
A demon (בר שידא) in Rav Pappa’s household delayed fetching water because it waited for foul waters to pass, not realizing the household always poured out the first bit of water, which would have made the delay unnecessary.
ואמר אביי:
מריש הוה אמינא
האי דשדי מיא מפומא דחצבא, משום ציבתא
אמר לי מר: משום דאיכא מים הרעים
ההוא בר שידא דהוה בי רב פפא
אזל לאתויי מיא מנהרא, איעכב
כי אתא, אמרו ליה: אמאי איעכבת?
אמר להו: עד דחלפי מים הרעים
אדהכי, חזנהו דקא שדו מיא מפומא דחצבא
אמר: אי הוה ידענא דרגיליתו למיעבד הכי, לא איעכבי
And Abaye said:
At first I would say
that this practice that people pour out a little water from the mouth of a pitcher before drinking from it is followed because of twigs it might contain.
But the Master said to me that it is followed because there are foul waters in the pitcher.
The Gemara relates: There was a certain son of a demon that was in Rav Pappa’s house as a servant.
It went to bring water from the river, and it delayed in returning.
When it came, the members of Rav Pappa’s household said to it: Why did you delay?
It said to them: I waited until the foul waters passed.
In the meantime, the demon saw the members of Rav Pappa’s household pouring water from the mouth of the pitcher before drinking from it.
The demon said to them: If I had known that you regularly do this, I would not have delayed. I would have brought the water straight from the river, knowing you would pour out the foul waters.
Stories showing the importance of rinse hands
Rav Dimi reports an incident where neglecting to rinse hands before eating led to a Jew being mistakenly served pork, as the storekeeper assumed the person who didn’t rinse hands was a non-Jew.
Ravin reports a different version: rather than pork, the Jew was served meat that wasn’t ritually slaughtered (נבלה).
The failure to wash after eating resulted in a host divorcing his wife, or, in a different version, killing her out of anger.7
כי אתא רב דימי, אמר:
מים הראשונים -- האכילו בשר חזיר
אחרונים -- הוציאו את האשה מבעלה
כי אתא רבין, אמר:
ראשונים -- האכילו בשר נבלה
אחרונים -- הרגו את הנפש
When Rav Dimi came from Eretz Yisrael he said:
Due to the failure to wash with the first waters, they ultimately fed a Jew pig meat. This case involved a storekeeper who would sell different meat to his Jewish and gentile customers. When a Jew who came to eat with him neglected to wash before eating, the storekeeper assumed he was a gentile and fed him pig meat.
And due to the failure to wash with final waters a woman was ultimately divorced from her husband. In this incident, a host who had stolen his guests’ money had lentils on his mustache from a previous meal because he had not washed his hands and mouth after eating. Realizing he had eaten lentils that day, his victims approached the man’s wife and said that her husband had instructed them to tell her to return their money. They then claimed that the man told them to tell her that he had eaten lentils that day as proof that they were telling the truth. They thereby fooled his wife into thinking he wanted her to give their money back. Out of anger, the host divorced his wife.
When Ravin came from Eretz Yisrael he said the statement slightly differently:
Due to the failure to wash with first waters, they fed a Jew meat from an animal carcass,
and the failure to wash with final waters killed a person, as in the second incident the host was so angry with his wife that he killed her.
Appendix - Table Summarizing
אמרה מלתא - literally: “she said a word / something”.
On talmudic defecation practices, see my piece here. Although wiping with an earthenware shard was convenient due to its availability, it was regarded as highly dangerous because its sharpness could easily result in a serious cut to the anus while wiping.
חביתא. On the correct translation of this word, and related words, see my footnote in my piece here.
אפיק שיפורי, שמתיה . For another story involving the blowing of a shofar to "excommunicate" (שמתא) and supernaturally inflict harm to a dangerous entity, see my piece here (cited also in the previous footnote):
ההוא אלמא דהוה קא מצער ליה לההוא צורבא מרבנן,
אתא לקמיה דרב יוסף,
אמר ליה: זיל שמתיה.
[…]
אמר ליה: שקליה, אחתיה בכדא, ואחתיה בי קברי, וקרי ביה אלפא שפורי בארבעין יומין.
אזיל עביד הכי,
פקע כדא, ומית אלמא.
There was a violent person (אלמא) who caused suffering to a certain Torah scholar (צורבא מרבנן)
This Torah scholar came before Rav Yosef to ask what he should do.
Rav Yosef said to him: Go and ostracize him (שמתיה)
[…]
Rav Yosef said to him to do as follows: Take the written ostracism and place it in a jug, and set it down in a cemetery, where nobody is found, and sound a thousand, i.e., many, shofar blasts over the course of forty days.
That man went and did this.
The jug burst and the violent man died.
הרגו את הנפש - literally: “killed a person“. The commentators understand this to mean a man killing his wife.
For another conclusion of a talmudic story of a man killing his wife, this time explicit, see my piece here:
אזל איהו וקטליה לאיתתיה
He went and killed his wife
And see my piece here for a story of a woman using magic to kill her ex-husband (Pesachim 110b).