Pt2 R’ Yehoshua ben Ḥananya’s Riddle Contest With the Athenian Philosophers (Bekhorot 8b-9a)
This is the second and final part of a two-part series. Part 1 is here; the outline of the series can be found at Part 1.
Part 2
(See footnote.)1
The Intellectual Contest: The Athenians pose a sequence of riddles
אמרו ליה: מאי עבידתיך?
אמר להו: אנא חכימא דיהודאי אנא, בעינא למיגמר חכמתא מינייכו.
אי הכי, ניבעי לך!
אמר להו:
לחיי,
אי זכיתו —
כל דבעיתו — עבידו בי,
ואי זכינא בכו —
איכלו גבאי בספינתא.
They said to him: What are you doing here?
They said to him: If so, we will ask you questions and see if you are worthy of this privilege.
R’ Yehoshua said to them: Very well.
If you win,
anything you wish — you may do to me,
and if I defeat you,
then eat with me on my ship.
1 - Athenian Challenge: Why would a rejected suitor approach an even more “distinguished” family?; R’ Yehoshua’s Response: Demonstrates with a peg: it won’t fit in the lower part of the wall but fits higher up (A metaphor for luck)
אמרו ליה:
ההוא גברא דאזיל ובעי אתתא
ולא יהבו ליה,
מאי חזי ליה דאזיל היכא דמדלו מיניה?
The sages of Athens said to him:
In the case of a certain man who goes and asks to marry a woman
and her family does not give her to him,
why would he see fit to go to a family that is greater4 than the first?
שקל סיכתא,
דצה לתתאי —
לא עאל,
לעילאי —
עאל.
אמר:
האי נמי --
מיתרמי בת מזליה.
R’ Yehoshua took a peg (סיכתא)
and stuck it (דצה) into the lower part of the wall,
but it did not go in.
He then stuck it into the upper portion of the wall where there was a hole,
and it went in.
He said to them:
In this case too --
where he goes to a more distinguished family than the first, perhaps he will find the girl destined5 for him.
2 - Athenian Challenge: Why would a lender who already lost money lend again?; R’ Yehoshua’s Response: A man keeps adding bundles of reeds until someone helps him lift them (People continue risky behaviors anticipating eventual success)
גברא דאוזיף
וטריף —
מאי חזא דהדר אוזיף?
The sages of Athens asked him another question:
In the case of a man who lends money to an individual and the borrower does not repay the loan,
and the lender repossesses the borrower’s property as payment instead —
why would he see fit to lend to others again?
אמר להו:
גברא אזל לאגמא,
קטל קמא טונא
ולא מצי ביה,
קטיל
ומנח עילויה,
עד (דאיתרמי) [דמיתרמי] איניש מדלי ליה.
R’ Yehoshua said to them:
This is what people do:
If a man goes to the pond,
initially cuts a bundle of reeds,
but finds that he cannot lift it,
he does not stop cutting wood.
Instead, he cuts more wood
and places it upon the first,
until a person happens to pass by and helps him raise it upon his shoulders, so that he can carry it home.
So too, a person continues to lend based on the assumption that he will eventually find an appropriate borrower.
3 - Athenian Challenge: “Say something nonsensical”; R’ Yehoshua’s Response: A mule gave birth to a foal carrying a debt-note for 100,000 dinars (i.e. He produces intentional nonsense, matching the request)
אמרו ליה: אימא לן מילי דבדיאי!
אמר להו:
הוה ההוא כודניתא דילידא,
והוה תלי ליה פיתקא,
וכתב ביה דמסיק בבי אבא מאה אלפא זוזי.
The sages of Athens said to him: Say to us a matter of nonsense (מילי דבדיאי).
R’ Yehoshua said to them:
There was a certain mule (כודניתא) that gave birth,
and a note6 was hanging on the newborn mule’s neck
and on it was written that it is owed 100,000 dinars by its father’s household.
אמרו ליה: וכודניתא מי ילדה?
אמר להו: (הי ניהו) [הני נינהו] מילי דבדיאי.
They said to him: But can a mule give birth?
R’ Yehoshua said to them: This is why it is a matter of nonsense, as it is impossible for a mule to give birth.
4 - Athenian Challenge: How does one preserve salt that has spoiled?; R’ Yehoshua’s Response: With the placenta of a mule (Since salt does not spoil, its “preservation” is as impossible as a mule’s placenta)
מילחא כי סריא -- במאי מלחי לה?
אמר להו: בסילתא דכודניתא.
ומי איכא סילתא לכודנתא?!
ומילחא מי סרי?!
The sages of Athens then asked another question:
When salt is spoiling (סריא) -- with what does one salt it to preserve it?
R’ Yehoshua said to them: With the placenta (סילתא) of a mule.
They said to him: But is there a placenta of a mule?!
R’ Yehoshua said to them: And does salt spoil?!
5 - Athenian Challenge: Build a house in midair; R’ Yehoshua’s Response: He levitates (via the Tetragrammaton) and tells them to bring bricks up to him
בני לן ביתא באוירא דעלמא!
אמר שם,
תלא בין רקיעא לארעא.
אמר להו:
אסיקו לי ליבני וטינא.
They said to him: Build us a house in the air of the world.
R’ Yehoshua uttered the Name of God7
and hovered8 between the sky and the earth.
He said to them: Bring up to me bricks and mortar and I will build you a house here.
6 - Athenian Challenge: Where is the center of the world?; R’ Yehoshua’s Response: Points to a spot and says: “Here—measure if you wish” (Shifts burden of proof; exposes arbitrariness of the question)
מציעתיה דעלמא — היכא?
זקפה לאצבעתיה, אמר להו: הכא.
אמרו ליה: ומי יימר?
אייתו אשלי ומשחו.
They asked him: the center of the world — Where is it?
R’ Yehoshua raised his finger and said to them: Here.
They said to him: And who says that you are correct?
He said to them: Bring ropes and measure.
7 - Athenian Challenge: Move a field-pit into the city; R’ Yehoshua’s Response: “Bring me ropes made of bran and I will pull it” (Mirrors their impossibility with another impossibility)
אית לן בירא בדברא —
עיילא למתא!
אמר להו:
אפשילו לי חבלי מפארי
ואעייליה.
They said to him:
We have a pit in the field —
bring it to the city.
R’ Yehoshua said to them:
Braid ropes made of bran for me
and I will bring it to the city with them.
8 - Athenian Challenge: Sew a broken millstone; R’ Yehoshua’s Response: “Pull threads from the stone and I will sew it” (Same technique: impossible premise answered with symmetrical impossibility)
אית לן ריחיא דתבירא —
חייטיה.
אמר:
כרוכו לי מיניה גרדי
ואיחייטיה.
They then said to him:
We have a mill that broke —
sew it back together.
R’ Yehoshua said to them:
Pull out threads from the mill for me
and I will sew them together.
9 - Athenian Challenge: How does one harvest a field of knives?; R’ Yehoshua’s Response: With the horn of a donkey (Again, pairs impossibility with impossibility - donkeys have no horns)
משרא דסכיני — במאי קטלי?
בקרנא דחמרא.
ומי איכא קרנא לחמרא?!
ומי איכא משרא דסכיני?!
They asked him another question:
A field (משרא) of knives — with what does one harvest (קטלי) it?
R’ Yehoshua answered: With the horn of a donkey.
They said to him: But is there such an item as a horn of a donkey?!
He said to them: But is there such a thing as a field of knives?!
10 - Athenian Challenge: Which egg came from a black vs white hen?; R’ Yehoshua’s Response: Produces two cheeses: identify which goat was black or white (Shows that their question lacks accessible criteria)
אייתו ליה תרי ביעי,
אמרו ליה:
הי דזגתא אוכמתי
והי דזגתא חיוורתי?
אייתי להו איהו תרי גביני,
אמר להו:
הי דעיזא אוכמתי
והי דעיזא חיוורתי?
They brought him two eggs
and said to him:
Which is the egg of a black hen9
and which is the egg of a white hen?
R’ Yehoshua brought them two cheeses,
and said to them:
Which is the cheese from the black goat
and which is from the white goat?
11 - Athenian Challenge: From where does the spirit exit a chick that dies in the egg?; R’ Yehoshua’s Response: From where it entered (Neutralizes the riddle with symmetry; rejects the mystery premise)
ורצוצא דמית --
מהיכא נפיק רוחיה?
מהיכא דעל --
נפק.
They asked him:
And in the case of a chick10 that dies inside the egg --
from where does its spirit exit?
R’ Yehoshua said to them:
From where it enters --
it departs.
12 - Athenian Challenge: Show a vessel whose damage exceeds its worth; R’ Yehoshua’s Response: They bring oversized mats; to get them inside they must break the gate (The gate-breaking costs more than the mats; a literal enactment of the category)
אחוי לן מנא דלא שוי חביליה!
אייתי (כל חד וחד) בודיא, פשטיה.
They said to him: Show us a utensil that is not worth the damage that it causes.
R’ Yehoshua said to them: Each one of you bring a mat and spread it out.
לא הוה עייל בתרעא.
אמר להו:
אייתו מרי, סיתרוה.
היינו מנא דלא שוי חביליה.
When they did so, each mat did not enter the gate due to its size.
R’ Yehoshua said to them:
Bring axes (מרי) and break the gate so that you can bring it inside.
This is a utensil that is not worth its damage.
Part 3
Capturing the Athenian philosophers and bringing them before the Roman Emperor
By the agreed terms, R’ Yehoshua wins. He places each Athenian sage in one of the 60 rooms.
Each finds 60 mattresses and assumes his colleagues will arrive shortly, passively waiting rather than attempting escape.
The ship sails for Rome. R’ Yehoshua has carried Athenian soil.11
איתינהו כל חד וחד,
כי חזי שיתין ביסתרקי,
אמר: כולהו חבראי להכא אתו.
אמר ליה לספונא: שרי ספינתך.
§ After R’ Yehoshua defeated the sages of Athens in debate, he brought them to his ship as they had agreed. He then brought each one to a different room.
When each one saw the 60 mattresses in his room,
he said to himself: All of my colleagues are coming here, and waited for them without attempting to leave.
R’ Yehoshua said to the sailor:12 Release your ship, i.e., begin sailing.
בהדי דקאתו
שקל עפרא מעפרייהו.
כי מטי לבי בליעי --
מלא כוזא דמיא מבי בליעי.
While they were coming to the emperor in Rome,
he took out some dirt that he had taken from the dirt of Athens.
When they reached the House of the Swallowed (בי בליעי) --
a location in the sea where the water absorbs everything in its vicinity, R’ Yehoshua ben Ḥananya filled up a small jug (כוזא) of water from the House of the Swallowed.
The emperor initially doubts they are truly the Athenian sages because they appear subdued; R’ Yehoshua sprinkles them with Athenian dirt; the familiar scent restores their characteristic arrogance; The emperor, satisfied, gives R’ Yehoshua authority over them
כד אתו,
אוקמינהו קמי קיסר.
חזנהו דהוו מעני,
אמר ליה: הני לאו נינהו.
שקל מעפרייהו
ושדא עילוייהו,
אקשו לאפי מלכא.
אמר ליה: כל דבעית עביד בהו.
When they arrived,
he presented the sages of Athens before the emperor.
The emperor saw that the sages of Athens were suffering (מעני) due to their having been taken captive.
He said to R’ Yehoshua: These individuals cannot be the sages of Athens, because those sages are strong and arrogant.
R’ Yehoshua took some of the dirt that he had taken from Athens
and threw it upon them.
When they smelled the scent of their own soil they began to act like themselves again, and they spoke with arrogance13 before the king.
Upon hearing them, the emperor said to R’ Yehoshua: You may do with them whatever you wish.
The Final Defeat: The Water of the House of the Swallowed
R’ Yehoshua had collected water from a sea-location that absorbs all water placed into it. He pours some of this into a container and orders the Athenians to fill it.
Each time they pour water, it disappears. They repeat the task until their shoulders dislocate.14
אייתינהו מיא דאייתי מבי בליעי,
שדינהו בתיגדא,
אמר להו: מליוה להו ואיזילו לכו.
מלו ושדו ביה קמאי קמאי,
ובלע להו,
מלו עד דשמיט כתפייהו,
ובלו להו ואזול.
R’ Yehoshua brought the water that he had brought from the House of the Swallowed
and poured it into a utensil [be-tigada].
He said to the sages: Fill it up and go on your way.
They filled and poured one by one, i.e., they filled the utensil by pouring in water numerous times,
and each time the utensil swallowed up the water.
They continued to fill it until their shoulders became disjointed (שמיט)
In this manner, the sages of Athens were defeated.
As mentioned in the intro (in Part 1 of this series), the overarching dynamic of this riddle-contest is that the Athenians test R’ Yehoshua through paradoxes and absurdities; he answers by amplifying their absurd premises.
The themes of the riddles—focused on contemporary realia—somewhat overlap with the themes in my three-part “Rabbinic Advice: Practical Guidance from the Talmud (Pesachim 112a-114a)“, final part here.
See also the extended note on the intro in Part 1 of this series.
חכימא - literally: “wise one”, equivalent to “philosopher”.
Alternative translation: “the wisest of the Jews”; the term is ambiguous.
מדלו - literally: “lifted”.
בת מזליה - literally: “the daughter of his mazal”.
I.e., a woman that befits/matches/follows a person’s fate/fortune.
פיתקא - from Greek.
Ii.e. the Tetragrammaton; ‘YHWH’.
For another case in the Talmud of using the divine name to levitate, see Sanhedrin.95a.11, citied in my “ “One day David went falcon-hunting”: The Demilitarized, Rabbinized, and Enchanted Story of Avishai Saving David From Yishbi-benov (II Samuel 21:15-17; Sanhedrin 95a)“, section “Avishai Saves David“:
כד חזייה ישבי בנוב,
אמר: השתא הוו בי תרין וקטלין לי.
פתקיה לדוד לעילא, ודץ ליה לרומחיה.
אמר: ניפול עלה ונקטל.
אמר אבישי שם,
אוקמיה לדוד בין שמיא לארעא.
When Ishbibenob saw him,
he said: Now they are two, David and Abishai, and they will kill me.
He threw David up in the air, and stuck his spear into the ground.
He said: Let David fall upon it and die.
Abishai recited a sacred name of God
and [thereby] suspended (אוקמיה - “stood him”) David between heaven and earth so that he would not fall.
תלא - literally: “hung”.
זגתא.
See Jastrow (modernized), זַגְתָּא:
(זגי)
a clucking hen.
see בָּטְנִיתָא.
זגתא על אפרחהא
(the clucking hen over her chickens,) the Pleiades.
Aramaic Targum to Job 38:32 (Arukh ed. pr. על בנהא).
And see Bava_Metzia.86b.6:
אמר רבי יוחנן:
מובחר שבבהמות –
שור,
מובחר שבעופות –
תרנגולת.
The Talmud cites a related statement of R’ Yoḥanan.
R’ Yoḥanan says:
The choicest of cattle
is the ox.
The choicest of fowl
is the hen.
אמר אמימר:
זגתא אוכמתא בי בטניתא
דמשתכחא ביני עצרי,
דלא מציא פסיא קניא.
With regard to the type of hen to which this is referring, Ameimar says:
It is a fattened (בטניתא), black hen [zagta]
that is found among the wine vats (עצרי),
which consumes so many grape seeds that it cannot take a step (פסיא) the length of a reed, due to its corpulence.
רצוצא.
See Jastrow (modernized), רְצִיצָא:
(רְצַץ) a crushed pullet in the egg-shell.
Bekhorot 8b Arukh, ed. דָּצוֹצָא.
And ibid., דָּצוֹצָא:
(דצץ, reduplication of דּוּץ II)
a pullet in the egg-shell.
Bekhorot 8b (some editions רצוצא, Arukh רציצא; Rashi דַּצְיָיצָא).
Which he will later use as a psychological device.
ספונא - i.e. the ship’s captain.
אקשו לאפי - literally: “they hardened [their] faces”.
Compare the punishment of the Danaïdes in Greek mythology; see Wikipedia, “Danaïdes”, section “After the Murders”:
Some accounts tell that their punishment in Tartarus was being forced to carry a jug to fill a pithos without a bottom (or with a leak) to wash their sins off.
Because the water constantly leaked, they would forever try to fill the pithos without succeeding.
(This parallel is pointed out by the Jewish Encyclopedia entry on Athenians in classical Jewish literature.)