Pt4 The Messianic Era in the Talmud: Fear of the “Birthpangs of Messiah”, the Identity of the Messiah, and the Day of the Lord

This is the fourth part of a seven-part series.¹

[pt4] Rabbinic Ambivalence: Fear of the “Birthpangs of Messiah”

Rav - Messiah will come when the Roman empire spreads over Israel for nine months (like pregnancy) - Micah 5:2

אמר רב:

אין בן דוד בא עד שתתפשט מלכות הרשעה על ישראל תשעה חדשים,

שנאמר:

״לכן יתנם

עד עת יולדה ילדה

ויתר אחיו ישובון על בני ישראל״.

Rav says:

The son of David will not come until the evil Roman kingdom will disperse throughout Eretz Yisrael for 9 months,

as it is stated:

“Therefore will He give them up,

until the time when she who is in labor has given birth;

then the remnant of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel” (Micah 5:2).

Once a period equivalent to a term of pregnancy passes, the redemption will come.

Ulla / Rabba - ‘Let him come, but may I not see him’ (due to fear of “birthpangs of Messiah”)

אמר עולא: ייתי ולא איחמיניה.

וכן אמר [רבה]: ייתי ולא איחמיניה.

§ Ulla says: Let the Messiah come, but after my death, so that I will not see him, as I fear the suffering that will precede his coming.

Likewise, Rabba says: Let the Messiah come, but after my death, so that I will not see him.

Rav Yosef - ‘Let him come—I’ll sit in the shadow of his donkey’s dung’ (accepting suffering)

רב יוסף אמר:

ייתי

ואזכי דאיתיב בטולא דכופיתא דחמריה.

[...]

Rav Yosef says:

Let the Messiah come,

and I will be privileged to sit in the shadow of the excrement (כופיתא) of his donkey.²

I am willing to undergo all the pain and disgrace associated with his arrival.

[...]

R. Yoḥanan -‘Let him come, but may I not see him’; Reish Lakish - Our present oppressions (by Rome) mirror those described in the Bible (‘lion, bear, snake’) - Amos 5:19

וכן אמר רבי יוחנן: ייתי ולא איחמיניה.

אמר ליה ריש לקיש:

מאי טעמא?

אילימא משום דכתיב ״כאשר ינוס איש מפני הארי ופגעו הדב [ובא הבית] וסמך ידו על הקיר ונשכו הנחש״?

בא ואראך דוגמתו בעולם הזה:

1. בזמן שאדם יוצא לשדה ופגע בו סנטר –

   1. דומה כמי שפגע בו ארי.

2. נכנס לעיר, פגע בו גבאי –

   1. דומה כמי שפגעו דב.

3. נכנס לביתו ומצא בניו ובנותיו מוטלין ברעב –

   1. דומה כמי שנשכו נחש.

And so too R’ Yoḥanan said: Let the Messiah come, but after my death, so that I will not see him.

Reish Lakish said to him:

What is the reason that you are concerned?

If we say it is because it is written with regard to the day of God: “As when a man did flee from a lion and a bear met him, or went into the house and leaned his arm on the wall and a snake bit him” (Amos 5:19), that is not a reason.

Come, and I will show you a counterpart³ in this world to the situation described in this verse, as even today one encounters those situations:

1. At a time when a person goes out to the field and is accosted by a (Roman) guard [santar] who demands payment --

   1. his situation is similar to that of one who is accosted by a lion.

2. He then enters the city and is accosted by a royal (Roman) tax collector (גבאי) --

   1. His situation is similar to that of one who is accosted by a bear.

3. He then enters his house and finds his children starving --

   1. His situation is similar to that of one whom a snake bit.

R. Yoḥanan explains—due to the travail depicted - Jeremiah 30:6

אלא משום דכתיב:

״שאלו נא וראו אם ילד זכר

מדוע ראיתי כל גבר ידיו על חלציו כיולדה

ונהפכו כל פנים לירקון״.

R’ Yoḥanan said to him: Rather, the reason I am concerned is that it is written with regard to the day of God:

“Ask now, and see whether a man gives birth.

Why, then, do I see every man [kol gever] with his hands on his loins, as a woman in labor,

and all faces turned green?” (Jeremiah 30:6).

Rava bar Yitzḥak citing Rav - ‘Kol gever’ refers to “He Whom all strength is His”; even the heavenly and earthly hosts turn pale over the decree - Jeremiah 30:6

מאי ״ראיתי כל גבר״?

אמר רבא בר יצחק, אמר רב:

מי שכל גבורה שלו.

The Talmud clarifies: What is the meaning of the phrase “I see kol gever”?

Rava bar Yitzḥak says that Rav says:

It is a reference to He Whom all strength is His.

It is as though even God will suffer like a woman in labor due to the troubles of the Jewish people.

R’ Yoḥanan - God won’t distinguish between the Jewish people and the non-Jews during the birthpangs of the Messiah (all will equally suffer) - Jeremiah 30:6

ומאי ״ונהפכו כל פנים לירקון״?

אמר רבי יוחנן:

• פמליא של מעלה

• ופמליא של מטה,

בשעה שאמר הקדוש ברוך הוא:

• הללו מעשה ידי

• והללו מעשה ידי,

היאך אאבד אלו מפני אלו?!

And what is the meaning of the phrase “And all faces turned green”?

R’ Yoḥanan says:

The reference is to

• the heavenly entourage⁴ above, i.e., angels,

• and the earthly entourage below, i.e., the Jewish people,

who will all suffer at the time when God says:

• These, the Jewish people, are My handiwork,

• and those, the non-Jews, are My handiwork.

How shall I destroy those on account of these?!

It appears that God does not distinguish between the Jewish people and the non-Jews. That is why R’ Yoḥanan was concerned with regard to the coming of the Messiah.

Rav Pappa - proverb illustrating-- When the ox falls, a horse replaces it (parable for Israel’s sins transferring prominence to non-Jewish nations)

אמר רב פפא:

היינו דאמרי אינשי:

רהיט ונפל תורא,

ואזיל ושדי ליה סוסיא באורייה.

Rav Pappa says that

this is in accordance with the adage that people say:

An ox runs and falls,

and its owner goes and casts a horse in its place (אורייה)

Although the horse is an inferior work animal relative to the ox, when there is no ox available, a horse must suffice. So too, after the Jewish people sin, it is as though God transfers their prominence to the non-Jews.

Rav Giddel citing Rav - Israel will enjoy (“eat”) the years of the Messiah

אמר רב גידל, אמר רב:

עתידין ישראל דאכלי שני משיח.

§ Rav Giddel says that Rav says:

The Jewish people are destined to eat from the bounty of, i.e., enjoy, the years of the Messiah.

Rav Yosef - this is contra R’ Hillel, who denied a future Messiah, as all the prophecies relating to the Messiah were already fulfilled during the days of the biblical King Hezekiah

אמר רב יוסף: פשיטא!

ואלא מאן אכיל להו?!

חילק ובילק אכלי להו?!

לאפוקי מדרבי הילל, דאמר:

אין משיח לישראל,

שכבר אכלוהו בימי חזקיה.

Rav Yosef says: Isn’t this obvious?

And rather, who else will eat from them?!

Will Ḥillak and Billak, two shiftless characters, eat from them?!

The Talmud explains that Rav Giddel’s statement serves to exclude the statement of R’ Hillel, who says:

There is no Messiah coming for the Jewish people,

as they already ate from him, as all the prophecies relating to the Messiah were already fulfilled during the days of Hezekiah.

Rav; Shmuel; R. Yoḥanan - World created for the sake of David (Rav), for Moses (Shmuel), or for the Messiah (R Yoḥanan)

אמר רב: לא אברי עלמא אלא לדוד.

ושמואל אמר: למשה.

ורבי יוחנן אמר: למשיח.

Rav says: The world was created only for the sake of David, by virtue of his merit.

And Shmuel says: It was created by virtue of the merit of Moses.

And R’ Yoḥanan says: It was created by virtue of the merit of the Messiah.

Who Is the Messiah? Names, Candidates, and David’s Future Role

Five opinions on Messiah’s name: R. Sheila’s School - “Shiloh” - Genesis 49:10; R. Yannai’s School - “Yinnon” - Psalms 72:17; R. Ḥanina’s School - “Ḥanina” - Jeremiah 16:13; “Some say” - “Menaḥem ben Ḥizkiyya” - Lamentations 1:16; “The Rabbis” - Messiah is the leper scholar (‘metzora’) of R. Yehuda HaNasi’s School - Isaiah 53:4

(See footnote.)⁵

מה שמו?

1. דבי רבי שילא אמרי:

   1. שילה שמו,

   2. שנאמר: ״עד כי יבא שילה״.

2. דבי רבי ינאי אמרי:

   1. ינון שמו,

   2. שנאמר: ״יהי שמו לעולם לפני שמש ינון שמו״.

3. דבי רבי חנינה אמרי:

   1. חנינה שמו,

   2. שנאמר: ״אשר לא אתן לכם חנינה״.

4. ויש אומרים:

   1. מנחם בן חזקיה שמו,

   2. שנאמר: ״כי רחק ממני מנחם משיב נפשי״.

5. ורבנן אמרי:

   1. חיוורא דבי רבי שמו,

   2. שנאמר: ״אכן חליינו הוא נשא ומכאבינו סבלם ואנחנו חשבנהו נגוע מכה אלהים ומענה״.

Apropos the Messiah, the Talmud asks: What is his name?

1. The school of R’ Sheila says:

   1. “Shiloh” is his name,

   2. as it is stated: “Until when Shiloh shall come” (Genesis 49:10).⁶

2. The school of R’ Yannai says:

   1. “Yinnon” (ינון) is his name,

   2. as it is stated: “May his name endure forever; may his name continue [yinnon] as long as the sun; and may men bless themselves by him” (Psalms 72:17).

3. The school of R’ Ḥanina says:

   1. “Ḥanina” (חנינה) is his name,

   2. as it is stated: “For I will show you no favor [ḥanina]” (Jeremiah 16:13).

4. And some say that

   1. “Menaḥem ben Ḥizkiyya” is his name,

   2. as it is stated: “Because the comforter [menaḥem] that should relieve my soul is far from me” (Lamentations 1:16).

5. And the Rabbis say:

   1. “The metzora⁷ of the house of R’ [Yehuda HaNasi]” is his name,

   2. as it is stated: “Indeed our illnesses he did bear and our pains he endured; yet we did esteem him injured, stricken by God, and afflicted” (Isaiah 53:4).

Rav Naḥman - If Messiah is from the living in our time—like me (‘their governor from their midst’) - Jeremiah 30:21

אמר רב נחמן:

אי מן חייא הוא --

כגון אנא,

שנאמר:

״והיה אדירו ממנו

ומשלו מקרבו יצא״.

Rav Naḥman says:

If the Messiah is among the living in this generation,

he is a person such as me, who already has dominion over the Jewish people,

as it is stated:

“And their prince shall be of themselves,

and their governor shall proceed from their midst” (Jeremiah 30:21), indicating that the redeemer is already in power.

Rav - If from the living—like R’ Yehuda HaNasi; if from the dead—like the biblical Daniel

אמר רב:

• אי מן חייא הוא --

  • כגון רבינו הקדוש.

• אי מן מתיא הוא --

  • כגון דניאל איש חמודות.

Rav says:

• If the Messiah is among the living in this generation --

  • he is a person such as our saintly R’ Yehuda HaNasi, who was renowned for his sanctity, piety, and Torah knowledge.

• If the Messiah is among the dead --

  • he is a person such as Daniel, the beloved man.⁸

Rav Yehuda citing Rav - God will establish another ‘David’ (as Messiah) in the future - Jeremiah 30:9

אמר רב יהודה, אמר רב:

עתיד הקדוש ברוך הוא להעמיד להם דוד אחר,

שנאמר:

״ועבדו את ה׳ אלהיהם

ואת דוד מלכם

אשר אקים להם״.

״הקים״ לא נאמר,

אלא ״אקים״.

Rav Yehuda says that Rav says:

God is destined to establish another David for the Jewish people as the Messiah,

as it is stated:

“And they shall serve YHWH their God,

and David their king,

whom I will establish (אקים) for them” (Jeremiah 30:9).

It is not stated: “established”,⁹

but “I will establish,”

indicating that the name of the future king will be David.

Abaye (answer to Rav Pappa) - David and the Messiah will rule together like “Caesar” (=emperor) and “Half-Caesar” (=viceroy) - Ezekiel 37:25

אמר ליה רב פפא לאביי:

והכתיב:

״ודוד עבדי נשיא להם לעולם״?

כגון קיסר ופלגי קיסר.

Rav Pappa said to Abaye:

But isn’t it written:

“And my servant David shall be their prince forever” (Ezekiel 37:25),

indicating that King David himself will rule over the Jewish people?

Abaye said: They will rule in tandem like an emperor and a viceroy;¹⁰ the Messiah will be king and David will be second-in-command.

Parable of the rooster and bat: Warning against improper desire for the day of YHWH, with R’ Abbahu’s response to a heretic about when the Messiah will come

R. Simlai - ‘Woe to those who desire the day of YHWH’—parable of rooster/bat: light suits the worthy, not the wicked - Amos 5:18

(See footnote.)¹¹

דרש רבי שמלאי:

מאי דכתיב

״הוי המתאוים את יום ה׳

למה זה לכם יום ה׳

הוא חשך ולא אור״?

§ R’ Simlai taught:

What is the meaning of that which is written:

“Woe to you who desire the day of YHWH.

Why would you have this day of YHWH?

It is darkness, and not light” (Amos 5:18)?

משל ל

תרנגול ועטלף שהיו מצפין לאור.

אמר ליה תרנגול לעטלף:

אני מצפה לאורה --

שאורה שלי היא,

ואתה למה לך אורה?!

It is comparable to

a rooster and a bat who were looking forward to the light of day.

The rooster said to the bat:

I look forward to light --

as light is an indication of my time to be active.

But as for you, why do you need light?! Nighttime for you is like daytime for me.¹²

R. Abbahu - Messiah comes when darkness covers the non-Jewish nations and light shines on Israel - Isaiah 60:2

והיינו דאמר ליה ההוא מינא לרבי אבהו: אימתי אתי משיח?

אמר ליה: לכי חפי להו חשוכא להנהו אינשי.

אמר ליה: מילט קא לייטת לי?!

אמר ליה:

קרא כתיב,

״כי הנה החשך יכסה ארץ

וערפל לאמים

ועליך יזרח ה׳

וכבודו עליך יראה״.

And that is the background for the following exchange, as a certain heretic said to R’ Abbahu: When will the Messiah come?

R’ Abbahu said to him: He will come when the darkness will enshroud these people, i.e., you.

The heretic said to him: Are you cursing me?!

R’ Abbahu said to him:

I am merely relating to you a verse that is written:

“For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,

and fog the peoples;

but YHWH shall shine upon you,

and His glory shall be seen upon you” (Isaiah 60:2).

1. The outline of the series can be found at Part 1.

These are the previous parts:

• Pt1 The Messianic Era in the Talmud: The Character of the Messianic Generation and Moral and Social Collapse in the Leadup to the Messianic Era (Sanhedrin 96b-99a)

• Pt2 The Messianic Era in the Talmud: Calculations of World Duration and Messianic Timing (Sanhedrin 96b-99a)

• Pt3 The Messianic Era in the Talmud: Signs Immediately Preceding the Messiah’s Arrival (Sanhedrin 96b-99a)

2. On the Messiah’s donkey, see the previous part (pt3), section “Resolving contradictory verses about the Messiah: Whether he comes ‘in its time’ or hastened, riding clouds or a donkey, depending on Israel’s merit“, and my note there.

3. דוגמתו - from Greek, see my note in “Pt2 Aḥer’s Apostasy and Its Aftermath (Chagigah 15a-b)“, on section “The Verse That Shielded R’ Akiva from the Error of Dual Theism (Deuteronomy 33:2; Song of Songs 5:10; Isaiah 48:2; I Kings 19:11-12)“.

4. פמליא - from Latin ‘familia’.

5. I quoted this section in a previous piece of mine: “ “Menaḥem ben Ḥizkiyya is his name”: The Name of the Messiah and the Infant Potential Messiah in the Post-Destruction (Bavli Sanhedrin 98b; Yerushalmi Berakhot 2:4, #12)“, section “Various opinions on the name and identity of the Messiah (Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 98b)“.

There’s a clear pattern in the first three of the five proposed “names of the Messiah”: in each case, the name suggested by a rabbinic school closely resembles—or is identical to—the name of that school’s eponymous rabbi:

• R. Sheila’s school — “Shiloh”

• R. Yannai’s school — “Yinnon”

• R. Ḥanina’s school — “Ḥanina”

6. See Wikipedia, “Shiloh (biblical figure)“:

Shiloh […] is a figure mentioned in the Hebrew Bible in Genesis 49:10 as part of the benediction given by Jacob to his son Judah.

Jacob states that “the sceptre will not depart from Judah... until Shiloh comes...”.

And ibid., section “Interpretation“:

The reference to sceptre and the Tribe of Judah has led many people to view this verse as a Messianic prophecy.

7. חיוורא - literally: “white [one]”.

8. איש חמודות.

This is a common epithet used in the Talmud used for the biblical Daniel .See for example in my “Heavenly Politics: Gabriel, Dubiel, and the Persian Tax Regime (Yoma 77a)“, section “Gabriel appeals by comparing Daniel with non-Jewish wise men“.

It’s based on the fact that this epithet is used twice in the Bible itself to describe Daniel, see Daniel.10.11:

ויאמר אלי:

דניאל איש חמדות

[…]

He said to me:

“O Daniel, precious man

[…]

And then ibid., verse 19:

ויאמר:

אל תירא, איש חמדות

[…]

He said:

“Have no fear, precious man,

[…]

9. הקים - past tense, as opposed to future tense.

10. קיסר ופלגי קיסר - literally: “Caesar [=Roman emperor] and half-Caesar”.

11. On the “Day of the Lord/YHWH”/”Judgment Day” in the Bible and Talmud, compare my “Rome and the Final Judgment: The Messianic-Era Judgement Day in the Talmud and Rome’s Role (Avodah Zarah 2a-b)“, and the intro there.

12. R’ Simlai interprets the verse from Amos using a natural analogy:

He compares those who “desire the day of the Lord” to a nocturnal bat and a diurnal rooster both waiting for daylight. The rooster rightfully anticipates dawn: it is diurnal, active and thriving in light (and famously crowing at dawn, as often referenced in the Talmud). The bat, being nocturnal, is active in darkness and has nothing to gain from the day; light actually ends its activity.

Similarly, people who live in moral or spiritual “darkness” (i.e. heretics and non-Jews) yet long for “the day of the Lord” are misguided. That day will expose and judge, not benefit, those unprepared for divine illumination.

In essence, R’ Simlai’s teaching is that yearning for revelation or judgment makes sense only for those suited to “live in the light”, not those adapted to “darkness”.